Would you marry a divorce person

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by John3v36, Jul 19, 2002.

  1. John3v36

    John3v36
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    Would you marry a divorce person who did not commit adultery & was the one who desert his wife. For the sole reason he said "He just didn't love his previous wife any longer." also added he "thought it would be more of a sin to stay with her than to leave her."
     
  2. Pastor_Bob

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    First let me give you a bit of advise. As a Pastor, you need to have certain convictions that have been pre-determined. For example: (These may or may not be my personal convictions. That is not the point.)
    1. I will not eat at a restaurant that serves alcohol. If that is a pre-determined conviction you won't have to make an "on-the-spot" decision.

    2. I will not counsel a member of the opposite sex in a private room. Again, if that is a pre-determined conviction you won't be pressured to make an "on-the-spot" decision.

    3. I will not marry someone who has been divorced. Period! Regardless of how legitimate they make their circumstances sound, you won't have to make an "on-the-spot" decision.

    Anytime we have to make such a decision on-the-spot, we usually end up making the wrong decision. I teach our teens the same principle regarding alcohol, cigarettes, pre-marital sex etc... Make the decision long before then you have no pressure to have to decide later. I hope this makes sense to you.

    In answer to your question, I personally would not marry anyone who has been divorced, regardless of the circumstances. After explaining my position, I have had 100% understanding from those I declined to marry.

    I also do not marry people who call or drive up to the church just looking for a "Marrying Sam." Some preachers do; I do not. The marriage vow is much too sacred to esteem it so lightly.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    Bob (NOT me) said - "As a Pastor, you need to have certain convictions that have been pre-determined.

    I agree for "some" areas. But on issues where there ARE variables and exceptions (as stated clearly by Jesus and then added to by Paul) such as divorce and remarriage, how can one have "convictions"?

    Can we take a stronger stand than the Lord or Apostle in an attempt to not have to deal with the thorny issues of "pornea" or "abandonment" that are the biblical variables?

    I weigh each case on its own merits.
     
  4. Helen

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    My husband married me and I will be eternally grateful. I had been married to my high school sweetheart for 20 years. For approximately 18 of them he had various affairs (because he was a general contractor, he had to have evening meetings with clients as he worked during the day on the jobs, and I understood this) with other women. July 4, 1991, he announced to me at 10 p.m. as I was almost passed out from an exhausting day that he was getting a room and moving out. He told me he wanted 'time with the Lord.' He had another woman.

    In the meantime, we had had one natural son and had adopted five special case kids. He walked out on all of us, filed for divorce, refused to pay child support until the judge forced him to, married the other woman within a month of the divorce being final, and totally dropped contact with his children.

    For nine years I raised these kids on my own, determined never to marry again. I felt that even though my ex had broken his vows, that was no excuse for me to break mine.

    In 1998, Barry introduced himself and asked for some editing help on a paper he was working on. I am an editor. I refused because I was unfamiliar with physics. Nevertheless he kept calling and calling and gradually be became awfully good friends. When I had to have one son arrested here at the house, Barry prayed me through the hard, tearing time. When I had surgery, Barry prayed for me all the way through.

    I had never met a man before who referenced every moment of his life to Christ. We both ended up agonizing about the idea of us getting married because of my divorce.

    Here is the argument from a pastor which helped us both understand this situation: in the ancient days, adultery was punished by stoning to death, leaving the victim in the marriage a widow or widower and free, then, to marry again. The question posed to us was then, "Has God's judgement changed because man's laws have changed?"

    The answer is, of course, no. God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. In fact, in the Middle Ages, desertion which left a woman alone with her children made her a "grass widow." After a certain amount of time she was free to marry again.

    My children were ages 6-17 when their father walked out. They were 16-28 when I married Barry. The children and I had done it, and God had sent me the most incredible of men -- someone who loved me. For the first time in my life I was loved by a husband. The healing has been from the Lord through him.

    I have no doubts in my mind or heart at all that God gave me to Barry, and that it has been God who has been orchestrating all of everything in our marriage.

    I am so, so grateful this man married me.

    And, oh yeah, the kids adore him. My youngest daughter made a very striking comment the other day: it was that before Barry, she would probably have looked for a future husband along the lines of the father who left, simply because that is what she knew. Now, however, she had a different picture in her mind of what a man should be and what a marriage should be.

    In other words, God has not only used this marriage to heal me, but to heal my children somewhat as well.

    And I was a divorced woman.
     
  5. Pastor_Bob

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    Mat. 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
    4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
    5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
    6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
    7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
    8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
    9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery." (KJV)

    Jesus admits that divorce is allowed, but He declares that this was not the original design of marriage. It was on account of the hardness of their hearts. Our attention should never be on the grounds for divorce, but rather on God's original design for marriage. As in the above text, the mind of the Pharisee looks for a way or a justification for divorce; the mind of Christ sees the "one flesh" relationship that God designed.

    Although divorce was controlled by God, it was never condoned by God. Polygamy, slavery, and other things were controlled but not condoned as well.

    In all cases where divorce was permitted, remarriage was not. 1 Cor. 7:11 "But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife." (KJV)

    An unlearned person may point to 1 Cor. 7:15 "But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace." (KJV)

    This verse is not talking about remarriage. Nowhere in the Word of God is marriage described as "bondage." Marriage is a beautiful, God-given covenant between a man and a woman.

    What Paul is saying is this: If your mate (he is speaking specifically about an unsaved mate) decides to leave you, you cannot prevent it; you are to submit to it patiently and bear it as a Christian.

    Paul is not saying that you are free to remarry when your unbelieveing mate has gone away. He is saying that you are not bound to go with them and force them to make this marriage work. A Christian is not bound to live with an unsaved mate who will not have them. Paul is saying that if the unbelieving deopart, he/she is to be allowed to do so peaceably rather than to have contention and strife. Why? Because "God has called us to peace."
    Rom. 12:18 "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men."(KJV)

    Helen, you have a beautiful testimony of the grace and mercy of God. God has blessed you indeed. But, you are the rare exception and not the rule. God has given you a good man. Praise the Lord! You need to be quick to declare that you are now what you are only by the goodness and grace of God. It would be easy for others to look at your situation and think, "If God can do that for Helen, maybe He'll do it for me as well." That is why it is so important that, along with the beautiful testimony, you add that this was not God's original plan for your life but by His grace and mercy He worked it out for you.
     
  6. Helen

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    I agree with you Bob, and I will go a step further. If I had honored my parents to begin with, I never would have married him. They did not like or trust him from the start.

    Widows are recommended to remarry in the Bible. Just because the (chronic) adulterer is not put to death in our society, does that mean that the woman who would otherwise have been a widow should be penalized for the length of life of the partner who left, or until she dies? I have a real problem with that!

    By the way, marriage is referred to as bondage in Romans 7:2 -- "For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage."

    I do tell people it was by the grace of God that I am where I am today. I hope that no one who has heard my story ever misses that! But I guess my point is that when a wife and a family go through what we went through, God IS gracious. He is merciful and loving and kind to those who are His, and Barry and I are most certainly His!

    And we are forever grateful to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    "He reached down from on high and took hold of me;
    he drew me out of deep waters."

    =============

    an addition as an edit: I meant to say this earlier, Bob -- I commend you on the idea of making decisions ahead of time in a number of areas. This is something we try to counsel for teens especially: be ready for a situation by knowing what you will do when it arises and why you will do it. We deal with the standard drugs, sex, alcohol, tobacco material but also extend this to disagreements with parents, being used as a buffer or tool by divorced parents, gossip, various social situations, etc. Helping people think these things through ahead of time can really be the strongest preventative I know to avoid damaging and compromising behavior, not to mention sin itself. It can also stop unintentional pain inflicted on others. How do you treat a handicapped person? What if someone is sitting alone in the lunch room? How do you approach a family or family member of someone who has died/been murdered/commited suicide? These things are not often discussed and the teens -- and probably a lot of other people as well -- really need to.

    Talking about what to do or say and why is incredibly important to discuss before the situations occur. Thank you for bringing that up.

    [ July 20, 2002, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Helen ]
     
  7. Pastor_Bob

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    That is very wise of you to arrive at this conclusion. You sound like a lady who has made mistakes (like the rest of us) and has learned from them. God can and will use our failures to teach us if we will allow Him the opportunity.The point you make here is why I will not personally marry a couple unless both sets of parents have given their blessings.

    Unfortunately Karen, even though this sounds logical humanly speaking, it is not biblical. We have to stick with what the Word of God says. Even though I sometimes don't like it.

    The word "bound" in this passage is a different word than "bondage" in 1 Cor. 7:15. In Rom. 7:2, she is united to him; and is under his authority as the head of the household. The same principle is stated in 1Cor. 7:39 "The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord."

    "Bound" meaning "to bind, knit, or tie."

    In 1 Cor. 7:15, the word "bondage" literally means "to enslave."
    Many have supposed that this means that they would be at liberty to marry again when the unbelieving wife or husband had gone away. But this is contrary to the strain of the argument of the apostle. The sense of the expression, "is not bound," etc. is that if they forcibly depart, the one that is left is not bound by the marriage tie to make provision for the one that departed. To to do things unbecoming a Christian to compel the departing husband or wife to live with the one that is forsaken; but is at liberty to live separate, and should regard it as proper to do so.

    Karen, I couldn't agree with you more. I have three teenagers at home right now. My oldest son is leaving for Oklahoma Baptist College in just a few weeks. I realize that I cannot be there to watch out for them every minute. It is so important to have godly, biblical standards and convictions pre-determined. When we have biblical standards, we give the Holy Spirit His great weapon in fleeing temptations. I'm referring, of course to "The sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God."

    God bless you Karen. It has been a pleasure speaking with you.

    Pastor Bob
     
  8. HankD

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    Dear Helen,

    Thank you for sharing your painful story and the insight of your pastor.

    HankD
     
  9. MissAbbyIFBaptist

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    Thankyou pastor Bob for your insight in this matter. My dad is planing on getting remarried again after his divorce with my mom. Their devorce was on biblical grounds, but I was kind of confused as to whiether or not he could remarry because of this.
    You see, my daddy is either not saved or VERY away from God. It has always been up to my grandparents to see that I had the things I needed, and that I was watched after, raised right, and was taken to church. And since this marriage will not effect me too much beacuse I live with my grandparents, I didn't say much on the matter.
    I try so hard to be a godly example especialy around my lost family, and I don't know what my dad will think about me saying anything to him regarding the Bible. And especialy regarding divorce.
    since I wasn't clear on wheither or not someone could remarry after a biblical grounds divorce, I didn't say anything, but I never felt right about the idea. Something just didn't seem right.
    Pastor Bob, should I say anything to him regarding what the Bible says on divorce and marrage?
    I still have a lot to learn, and would like your advice on this matter.
    In Our Saviour, Abby
     
  10. Pastor Larry

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    I would say it depends. If reconciliation is with the original spouse is no longer possible, if appropriate fruits of repentance and evidence of spiritual growth over an extended period of time have been observed through regular discipleship and accountability, then maybe. But maybe not. Divorce is a sin without question. However, when a marriage is over, it is over and nothing in Scripture forbids a spiritually apt person from pursuing a marriage. However, there are good men who differ on this. I simply give my position at present.

    For saved by grace, my heart goes out to you. While my family was always intact, I have been closely associated with a family during a splitup and had to be the one to "break the news" to one of the children. I would urge you to not say anything to your father about the remarriage. The bigger problem is his spiritual condition. We should not expect unsaved people to live like believers. You might express a personal wish for him not to remarry but do not burn the bridge. And remember that he is your father--you must honor him whether he deserves it or not. Love him, be a light to him, and pray that God will save him.

    [ July 27, 2002, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  11. Pastor_Bob

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    Abby,
    I was raised in a situation in some ways similar to yours. My father and mother divorced when I was an infant. I did not know my biological father until I became an adult. My first step-dad passed away when I was nine years old. My second step-dad arrived on the scene about 5 months later. As a result, I have a strong disdain for divorce. Regardless of one's opinion on the right or wrong of divorce, one would have to admit that it is never pretty; especially for the children.

    I agree with Pastor Larry that you should not say anything to your father. His primary need, it seems, is to know the Lord or to be reconciled with the Lord. Your place is to honor your father and try to win him as a result of your godly living. If your father is a child of God, God may reprove Him but it is doubtful that He would use use to be that source of reproof. At least not in this stage of your life. Just be sweet and pray for he and his future wife.

    God will give you opportunities to grow and to learn from this situation. You may have the privilege of helping someone else through a tough time when their parents go through a divorce.

    God Bless You Abby,
    Pastor Bob
     
  12. MissAbbyIFBaptist

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    Thankyou both for your words of advice. I really didn't know what to think. It is also a good point that I can't expect an unsaved person to live like a beliver.
    I do want to honour him, and I want to live as God would have me to do. {Though I think I make way too many mistakes daily.}
    I'm grateful for ya'lls words on this. Your right, maybe God can use this time to help me grow. {cause I sure do have a lot to learn!}
    In Our Saviour, Abby
     
  13. AdoptedDaughter

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    As a side note to this thread, let us remember the children that must watch their parents go through divorce and the confusion and guilt that they often times feel.... Let us pray forthem... pray that God will comfort them and that they will be a shining light through their situation.

    As to should one remarry if they just don't love the other person any more. As previous posts have shown, no, one should not remarry for that reason.

    I am watching two kids whose parents divorced. The mother sought the divorce because, she "didn't love" him anymore. The father is heartbroken because he is still in love with her. Should one divorce on grounds that they don't love the other person any more? No, because love is something greater and more complex than our minds can conceive. i have studied this topic for at least two years, and the most that i can come up with is that love is a committment. So when someone says that they no longer love a person, they are saying that they don't want the committment and don't want to work on it. i know you probably won't agree with me, but that is the most that i can understand love.

    In Christ's gracious love,
    Teresa
     
  14. Maverick

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    Nope. Adultery is not a legitimate reason for divorce let alone I don't love her anymore. There are only 2 situations that allow divorce and remarriage and that ain't one of them. Will you marry him after the 5th time he says that?
     
  15. cdawg

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    I know there is much debate on the word "fornication" Jesus used in Matthew 19:9, and I have heard good arguments on both sides.

    Personally, I have made it a policy (rather than a conviction) not to marry divorced people. Even if you take a less restrictive view and allow for some divorces on adultery, I prefer not to be the one investigating or making judgment calls.

    Call this the coward's way out, but I have found people to be understanding since I have it as a pre-established policy.
     
  16. Pastor Larry

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    I know of many who take this position. In fact, I know a pastor whose very good friend went through a horrible divorce (wife left him for someone about 10 years younger ... i.e., 18). This pastor would not perform the marriage but went to another church where the pastor would and stood up in teh wedding party for him. Made me go "hmmmmmmmmmmmmm."

    My question for you is this: Do you think it is a sin for them to remarry?

    If they get married in another way (church, court, etc.) will you accept them into the membership of your church? If so, how do you reconcile what appears to be an inconsistency?

    [ August 05, 2002, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  17. Baptist Believer

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  18. Johnv

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    It's important to keep sinners out of the church? Huh? Then the church pews would be empty [​IMG]

    If a person divorces his wife because he "just didn't love her anymore", then he broke his marital covenant. Love in marriage is not an emotion. It's a decision. If you marry a person who values his marriage in such a small manner, then what will you do when he no longer loves you?
     
  19. cdawg

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    "My question for you is this: Do you think it is a sin for them to remarry?"

    I think if a divorce is for the wrong reasons and does not fit within the allowance made by Jesus, it is a sin to remarry. I lean toward a conservative interpretation of His words. However, I have heard some persuasive arguments for the opposing view. Until I am better persuaded as to exactly what Jesus intended to allow, I am not ready to determine who is rightfully divorced and who is not. In fact, even if taking a liberal view of it, I'm not sure I would change my policy.

    If a couple's remarriage is clearly adultery (according to Matthew 19), then yes, it is sin and they should repent of it like any other sin.
    After that, they should leave it in the past and live their life for God.

    CC

    [ August 06, 2002, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: cdawg ]
     
  20. Pastor Larry

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    So if they remarry in another church, do you accept them into yours if they wish to become a member? What if you tell them it is sin, they go and do it anyway, and then wish to come join? It seems that this opens a can of worms with which I struggle for answers that are consistent. (Maybe there aren't any.)

    I agree that they should leave it in the past and go on in repentance. But why cannot the divorced person do this? Why is remarriage absolutely forbidden if the fruits of repentance have been manifested? It seems a double standard to say that one can go and get married in rebellion, but one cannot get married if he has already repented. Do you see the problem??
     

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