WOW! There are really people who believe that?

Originally posted by Anti-Alexandrian:

If it were true that Bible believers DID in fact worship a Bible(which is a blatant,hackneyed BOMC LIE ),at least we HAVE a Bible to worship.

As does anyone else who might worship a Bible.

But what is truly nauseating is placing Alexandrian philosophy,Gnosticism,scholarship,and Jesuit/Catholic Egyptian mss. of the dark-ages(and their "bibles":niv,nasb,rsv,etc..) over the Graeco/Syrian MSS.of the reformation(and the Bibles from them).

One of these days, you're gonna slip up and type something you can actually PROVE. But until then...


This whole thread smacks of Bible agnosticism.....

But yet you read it & posted in it. Quite telling.

And Bible agnosticism is believing some cockamamie myth about God's word such as KJVO.


(P.S.I'm glad you recognize the KJB is of God)

No one here said differently. However, God has much more for us than just the KJV. The wise Christian takes advantage of all that God has for him/her.

 

It is not fair to say that God only wants us to use the KJV. I do believe it is fair to say that His perfectly preserved word has been with us since He inspired holy men to put it to paper and He wants us to know that. The KJV just happens to be the one that we have today in our language.

It is also a safe bet that satan has been tinkering with the others in an effort to make them less effective, make us less effective and waste lot of time arguing and disagreeing among ourselves over an issue that has nothing to do with our salvation and should not have a negative impact on our fellowship.

Frankly, I think the perversions can be good sources of information, like a concordance, a different but often flawed and incomplete perspective.

Three questions:

1. Why would God not want us to have His perfect, infallible, inerrent word in our language today and to know that with assurance?

2. Why would He inspire men to write it perfect in every jot and tittle in the "originals" and then just lose it? That would be a waste of his time, which is not His nature, right?

3. Why would satan NOT get into the word and pervert, change and corrupt it for the purpose of creating confusion and division among us? Is that not his nature? Has he not been succesful?

To find the answer to question three, one need only study (a) the differences between the KJV and the modern versions and (b) the history and lifestyles of brilliant but misled scholars like Westcott and Hort and take a look at the activities of the Catholic Church throughout history.

Yes the KJV has certainly stood the test of time. It may be due for another revision (not a re-writing) to update the language without disturbing the intensity of the message.

Instead of attacking me for believing this, how about answering the above questions.

The KJB, the pure word, will be with us until the end, which may not be too long coming.

Thanks and God Bless

 

And if there was one shred of proof of any kind or from any legitimate source that the KJV was "the one" to the exclusion of all others... I would become KJVO myself. Been there, done that, couldn't stay when I knew it wasn't true.

Or, maybe he has been out there using KJVO's to resist efforts to put God's Word in today's language into the hand's of God's people... knowing that a weakened understanding of scripture will lead to doctrinal/practical errors.

Frankly, it is KJVOnlyism that is perverted, flawed, and incomplete in perspective. However, it is a very poor source for information, unlike a concordance.

We do have His Word. We don't have His words. His words were limited to the originals. His Word is limited to those documents that faithfully communicate the meanings and revelations given in the original words.

Why would you presume what God never said? Why if your view of preservation is correct was the KJV translated using a text derived from several differing mss? It was not a "preservation" of anything that went before it with regard to words. The words of the KJV never existed before 1611 or 1769- whichever is your pleasure.

What you have arbitrarily relegated to a "waste of time" was God's method to preserve His Word to mankind in spite of the fact that all of the copyists were fallible human beings... many probably unsaved.

It would be just as relevant to ask why God didn't give man the printing press in 1450 BC instead of 1450 AD. Or, to ask why God didn't cause someone to etch the originals onto stone or metal. THE ANSWER: if God had given us the originals or a "perfect" word for word Bible, man would worship it... Some do in spite of the fact that God has shown plainly that no existing version is the actual, exact words of God.

He has providentially given us proof that we have His Word 100%. He providentially allowed copying errors to creep in so that we wouldn't have something to make into an icon.

Why would Satan not work against MV's that enable today's readers to get God's Word inside of them?

Yes his nature is to create confusion and division, and yes he has been successful to the extent that many have rejected and condemned God's Word in MV's.

Yes, he has attempted to pervert, change, and corrupt God's Word by getting Christians to carry the biblical doctrine of the Bible further than the text or the historical proof allows. You have people using Psalms 12:6-7 out of context as a proof for the KJV being the only preserved Bible. You have people who persistently use double standards against MV's. You have people who have declared KJVOnlyism as truth for all "Bible believers" and thereby added to the teachings of what they claim to believe.

Yes some MV's are bad (TNIV, NRSV, NWT, etc) and yes Satan is at work but... not just through MV's. He is using the vain imaginings of KJVO's to attack from one side while using liberal denial of biblical authority on the other.

Which are not differences of doctrine nor teaching and are even less "different" than parallel "versions" of the same events within the KJV itself.

For instance, run cross references of OT quotes in the NT. You will find numerous "versions" of a saying from God within the KJV itself. Your argument might be that both were inspired. My response is that they are also an inspired example to us.

At the same time, take a look at the brilliant but misled collator of the original TR... who never even claimed to be saved in the biblical sense. He placed his faith in the RCC.

And, take a look at the brilliant but misled KJV translators who were Anglicans like Westcott and Hort. The Anglican church in their day was powerful and used its power to persecute Baptists and deny them their Bible of choice- the Geneva. Whatever might be said about W/H... you can't say they persecuted Baptists or took their Bibles away from them.

... or, KJVOnlyism may be a belief that will hasten apostasy in American Christianity and lead to a great falling away in another generation or two like what we saw in Europe- especially England... then perhaps God will start again in South America or China or some other place where the gospel is being preached and believed today without all of this extra baggage.

BTW, version "onlyism" isn't a new trick for Satan. The LV only view in the RCC facilitated their introduction of false doctrine on sincere but unwary "Christians".

 

I dont have to,the Roman Catholic Church already did;you know,the council of trent?

No RC would EVER recomend any MSS. that he edited(or any Bible from them).All of this is very elementary...

No,it's the real deal...

 

Dear Hank,

We have already been over this;why keep beating a dead dog to death?


A-A......

 

Correct!!

Yes,they did in fact come from a god.

Cool!!!!!!

 

But You keep diggin' him up A-A.

HankD

 

Alex Mullins:

Three questions:

1. Why would God not want us to have His perfect, infallible, inerrent word in our language today and to know that with assurance?

No one here says He DOESN'T. That's why, in English, He's caused his word to appear in the language style current for the times for over 600 years.

2. Why would He inspire men to write it perfect in every jot and tittle in the "originals" and then just lose it? That would be a waste of his time, which is not His nature, right?

A much-overlooked fact among KJVOnlyists is that God apparently chose not to preserve the originals, the actual writings by Moses, Paul, etc. After all, it IS God's word, and He can preserve and provide it AS HE CHOOSES. There is absolutely NO Scriptural support for the idea that God is limited to presenting His word in JUST THE ONE VERSION.


3. Why would satan NOT get into the word and pervert, change and corrupt it for the purpose of creating confusion and division among us? Is that not his nature? Has he not been succesful?

What Satan HAS been successful in doing is causing some well-meaning Christians to take up a myth begun in 1930 by a SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST, and cause them to heap aspersions upon editions of God's word that don't meet the criteria of that myth. Just think about-does it not serve Satan's cause better to have FEWER Bible versions about, or to have them cast into a bad light than to have these versions recognized as God's word also?

I hope I've answered YOUR questions with due respect, Mr. Mullins. Now, will you answer a little group of questions for me?

The AV 1611 was published in 1611. Where was the word of God in English in 1610? Did the AV translators tamper with existing versions? By whose authority are we to use the KJV only?

 

I dont have to,the Roman Catholic Church already did;you know,the council of trent?</font>[/QUOTE] Yes I do know, do you? I looked up info on Erasmus and the Council of Trent as best as I could in an effort to confirm or refute what you claim. What I found was that his Greek text was not mentioned as one of the condemned works anywhere I found. It was his criticism of corruption in the RCC that got him into trouble.

If you have a quote from the Council of Trent confirming that they condemned the TR then by all means provide it. Until then, your claims are without foundation... they are a lie used to avoid the subject.

Elementary? It is elementary to provide support for things before declaring them to be true. Erasmus' textual work was not opposed by the RCC... if you think it was then show your proof. If you have no truth, please stop spreading false information.

 

Dear sister , that is an excellent point!

 

I notice it's been three days since I answered Alex Mullins' questions, then asked him the same basic questions I ask every KJVO, and I've gotten the usual KJVO response-deafening silence.

 

Sorry Roby:

I don't have a lot of time on my hands to spend defending my belief the God wrote only one Bible.

After many thousands of hours studying the History of the Bible, the History fo The Church of Rome, the lives of brilliant but misguided scholars like Westcott and Hort, after studying the mind of God and His promised to guard and protect His holy Word, after knowing first-hand how satan can work on the minds of men...... the KJBonly position is the only logical conclusion I can arrive at.

The evidence is further confirmed when I read the venimous attacks from those who disagree with this position. Satan has accomplished his objective.

God's very nature would never permit or cause him to make the sorts of attacks I see on this forum.

If it were not for the modern versions, this topic would not exist and much more valuable time could be invested in the work of the Kingdom. God is not the author of confusion. Satan has been successful. You, and others who would attack us for for our belief are the proof.

Instead of attacking other believers for an opinion which is different than your own, spend that time looking at the differences between the KJB and the MV's. There are thousands of them, some subtle, some very glaring, whole paragraphs and chapters removed, words changed to diminish and pervert the real meaning. The very name of The Lord Jesus Christ has been diminished and omitted in thousands of places, if you would simply compare the KJB with the NIV, for example. The changes are too many to list here.

The modern versions have made it impossible to read responsively in our worship services.

It is all a part of a trend and an attack on the precious word in The garden of Eden when the serapnt question Eve by saying "Yea, hath God said" and by placing that seed of doubt in her mind.

What better way could there have been for satan to get in and divide us.

Take a look around. If you attend worship anywhere, most evangelical churches are singing choruses that are shallow and empty, never mention the name of Jesus Christ, the cross, the blood or salvation. Many are "generic". They could just as easily be sung in a Buddhist Temple, Muslim Mosque or a Catholic Church.

Likewise, we have a Bibles that are "generic", gender neutral and watered down to the point where they are almost ready fro use in that one-world church which is coming. The KJB will not work in that church. It has withstood the test of time and tells it like it is.

I believe the KJB to be true when it tells us the way to Heaven is narrow and few are they who find it, but the road to destruction is broad.

God Bless you brother. I trust you will find the truth and peace in your heart, as I have. The KJB works for me and it will work for you, if you will allow it to.

God wrote only one Bible. It is the KJB. It is an easy read and all we have to do is believe it, not rewrite it.

AV Alex

 

Being aware of the differences only causes confusion until one compares both the KJV and contemporary translation with the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek Manuscripts. But of course anyone who knowingly and deliberately distorts the data is not going to learn the truth, but a lie. And anyone who knowingly and deliberately distorts the truth by calling the KJV the KJB is already on the wrong road, a road leading further and further from the truth.

 

If God only wrote one Bible and it is the KJB, then over 80% of church history was without a Bible and God was lying to them. I can't believe how difficult it is for some people to grasp this concept.

 

Chapter and verse, please.

If not available, why on earth would you say it? </font>[/QUOTE]Drumroll.....Answer: Man made doctrine, i.e. myth Alex, it is true that God wrote only one Bible, and it's true that one Bible has been translated in our tongue in many versions. (too many in my view, though). Again, the translation you're defending is called the King James Version or Authorized Version. And I'm convinced that because this fact of the KJ Version being called such, the KJVO's insist on calling it the KJB, as if it actually is the only Bible instead of just a version. Why not call it what the King did? Why not call it what its very translators did? Why not call it what the vast majority of Bible believers has called it for almost 400 years? (He, didn't the translation start in 1604? that makes 400 years! you didn't know I'm a brilliant mathematician did ya? )

 

Originally posted by Alex Mullins:
"Sorry Roby:

I don't have a lot of time on my hands to spend defending my belief the God wrote only one Bible."

If you have the time to make such an outlandish claim, you should have time to defend it.

"After many thousands of hours studying the History of the Bible,"

If you'd studied the Bibles mentioned in that history, you'd have seen that no two are alike.


the History fo The Church of Rome,

Which includes Erasmus Desiderius, the writer of the Textus Receptus...


the lives of brilliant but misguided scholars like Westcott and Hort,

...and seen how often KJVOs misquote them, or blame them for all the world's evils...


after studying the mind of God

WOW!!!

and His promised to guard and protect His holy Word,

..You should know that since every BV is different, that God has presented His word AS HE HAS CHOSEN...

after knowing first-hand how satan can work on the minds of men......

.......Yes-he's caused such lies as the KJVO myth to exist......

the KJBonly position is the only logical conclusion I can arrive at."

Izzatso? Then BY WHOSE AUTHORITY have you arrived at such a conclusion?

"The evidence is further confirmed when I read the venimous attacks from those who disagree with this position. Satan has accomplished his objective."

Yes, he sure has. He's planted the false doctrine of KJVO in the minds of some well-meaning Christians, clouding those minds to the truth. The venom comes from the example of JESUS CHRIST, who talked MUCH more harshly to the purveyors of bunk in Jerusalem. On this board, we don't deal with the modern purveyors of bunk nearly that harshly, but we know hooey when we read it, and cannot in good conscience ignore it.

"God's very nature would never permit or cause him to make the sorts of attacks I see on this forum."

Ever read any of Dr. Ruckman's works?

"If it were not for the modern versions, this topic would not exist and much more valuable time could be invested in the work of the Kingdom."

You're absolutely wrong. It's the KJVO myth that has brought topics such as this into existence. It's the KJVO who attacks God's word with a doctrine they simply cannot verify. Remember, part of our work for God is attacking false doctrines about Him.


"God is not the author of confusion. Satan has been successful. You, and others who would attack us for for our belief are the proof."

Wrong again. WE are the proof that there are many of us who still believe GOD'S TRUTHS over MAN'S FALSE DOCTRINES.

"Instead of attacking other believers for an opinion which is different than your own, spend that time looking at the differences between the KJB and the MV's. There are thousands of them, some subtle, some very glaring, whole paragraphs and chapters removed, words changed to diminish and pervert the real meaning. The very name of The Lord Jesus Christ has been diminished and omitted in thousands of places, if you would simply compare the KJB with the NIV, for example. The changes are too many to list here."

Ever bothered to examine the variations within the KJV, such as Mark having both thieves crucified with Jesus reviling Him while Luke has one of the thieves repenting? What about Jehoiachin? Did he begin reigning at age eight or eighteen? How many women came to Jesus' tomb? The four Gospels vary in their accounts.

The VERY SAME PRINCIPLES used to explain these variations WITHIN one version MUST BE APPLIED to explain the differences between the versions, or the critic is using a double standard. The MAIN principle is, "different men wrote different accounts". This MUST be applied UNIFORMLY, or it's a DOUBLE STANDARD!!!

"The modern versions have made it impossible to read responsively in our worship services."

Please explain, or please tell us what part of "Bah Humbug!" you don't understand.

"It is all a part of a trend and an attack on the precious word in The garden of Eden when the serapnt question Eve by saying "Yea, hath God said" and by placing that seed of doubt in her mind."

Eve, far as we know, had no written word. And why does a CHRISTIAN go around quoting SATAN?

"What better way could there have been for satan to get in and divide us."

Creating the KJVO myth.

"Take a look around. If you attend worship anywhere, most evangelical churches are singing choruses that are shallow and empty, never mention the name of Jesus Christ, the cross, the blood or salvation. Many are "generic". They could just as easily be sung in a Buddhist Temple, Muslim Mosque or a Catholic Church."

That's the fault of the people involved.

"Likewise, we have a Bibles that are "generic", gender neutral and watered down to the point where they are almost ready fro use in that one-world church which is coming. The KJB will not work in that church. It has withstood the test of time and tells it like it is."

Once again, it's the fault of the PEOPLE involved, & not their BVs. remember, Koresh, Jones, & quite a few other charlatans use/used the KJV.

"I believe the KJB to be true when it tells us the way to Heaven is narrow and few are they who find it, but the road to destruction is broad."

I do, too. And I also believe it from the AV 1611, NKJV, NASV, NIV, and others.

"God Bless you brother. I trust you will find the truth and peace in your heart, as I have. The KJB works for me and it will work for you, if you will allow it to."

It has, for years. And so have many others. God isn't limited, so why should I limit myself to only part of what He's made available? May God bless YOU, TOO, Bro, and may He open your eyes to His WHOLE truth!

"God wrote only one Bible. It is the KJB."

Please **P-R-O-V-E** the above statement!!


"It is an easy read and all we have to do is believe it, not rewrite it."

OK, from the KJV, read 2 Corinthians 6:11-12 to the average 5th grader & he/she will tell you Paul needed medical attention fast. Or, read 2 Kings 18:27 to a VBS class of grade-schoolers & see if you're ever invited back.

Mr. Mullins, I'm trying to treat you with respect, but it's hard to do when, like most other garden-variety KJVOnlyists, you post a fairly long diatribe while totally ignoring the questions I asked you. I sometimes lose patience with those who continually tout this false doctrine that doesn't have one scintilla of evidence to support it. I KNOW the man-made origins of the current KJVO myth; can YOU prove any differently?

Once again:

By whose authority are you KJVO? And by whose authority do you tell me I should be?

Where was God's word in English in 1610?

Where's the SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT for KJVOnlyism? Answer these basic questions truthfully & we can go from there.

 

That's because you have one!

 

Most Catholic Churches would not stoop that low! Any "Baptist" church that does should change their name to something "generic." And that also goes for those "Baptist" churches that believe God invented the Bible in 1611 and that Jesus quoted from a "version" of the Old Testament that had not yet been perfected giving us an imperfect New Testament, even in the KJV.

 

Any other KJVO, please feel free to answer the questions I asked Mr. Mullins. This is a public forum and he & I aren't carrying on a private conversation, so jump right in-IF YOU DARE!