Wrestling Scriptures ( Joshua 10:26)

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by vooks, May 5, 2015.

  1. vooks

    vooks
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    Joshua 10:26 (KJV)
    And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening. 27 And it came to pass at the time of the going down of the sun, that Joshua commanded, and they took them down off the trees, and cast them into the cave wherein they had been hid, and laid great stones in the cave's mouth, which remain until this very day.


    Look at Joshua 10:26 in as many verses as you will
    https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Joshua 10:26

    ALL these verses tell you the same thing; the corpses were removed in the evening, at dusk. Of course they had been killed during the day. Joshua was obeying Deut 21:22-23 which would not have hanged criminals remain on the tree; they had to be removed latest in the evening, at dusk;

    Deuteronomy 21:22-23 (KJV)
    And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: 23 His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.


    In Galatians 3:13 Paul quotes this very verse as being fulfilled in Christ. And true to the verse, Jesus was killed like a criminal, and they buried him a few hours later.

    He died in the afternoon (Matt 27:46) and immediately afterwards, Joseph Arimthea requested Pilate (v57-58, Mark 15:42-47, Luke 23:50-56) to be given his body so he could bury it.


    Matthew 27:57 (ESV)
    57 When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who also was a disciple of Jesus. 58 He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate ordered it to be given to him

    Mark 15:42-47 (ESV) 42 And when evening had come, since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the Sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathea, a respected member of the council, who was also himself looking for the kingdom of God, took courage and went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 44 Pilate was surprised to hear that he should have already died. And summoning the centurion, he asked him whether he was already dead. 45 And when he learned from the centurion that he was dead, he granted the corpse to Joseph. 46 And Joseph bought a linen shroud, and taking him down, wrapped him in the linen shroud and laid him in a tomb that had been cut out of the rock. And he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. 47 Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses saw where he was laid.

    Luke 23:50-56 (ESV)
    50 Now there was a man named Joseph, from the Jewish town of Arimathea. He was a member of the council, a good and righteous man, 51 who had not consented to their decision and action; and he was looking for the kingdom of God. 52 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 53 Then he took it down and wrapped it in a linen shroud and laid him in a tomb cut in stone, where no one had ever yet been laid. 54 It was the day of Preparation, and the Sabbath was beginning. 55 The women who had come with him from Galilee followed and saw the tomb and how his body was laid. 56 Then they returned and prepared spices and ointments.
    On the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.


    How then in the light of these clear scriptures somebody argue that;
    1. Joshua slew and hanged the men IN the evening, they remained there the entire night and were removed in the morning?

    2. How on the basis of this wild rendering of Joshua 10:26-27, one claim that Jesus remained on the cross the entire night and was buried the next morning?

    http://www.biblestudents.co.za/docs/html/Buried Before Sunset.htm

    When God gave the command, is it not obvious that the whole idea was NIGHTTIME should never find bodies hanging?
    When He says 'all night' does He mean that you can hang their bodies for a better part of the night?

    The depths to which some primates sink inorder to prop their false doctrines are clearly bottomless
     
    #1 vooks, May 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2015
  2. PreachTony

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    For the sake of clarification...who around here is arguing that Jesus stayed on the cross overnight? Or what thread is it found in? I must've missed that one...
     
  3. vooks

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    There is a link I have quoted, here;
    http://www.biblestudents.co.za/docs/html/Buried Before Sunset.htm

    The owner is a member of this forum. Instead of shadow boxing with imaginary debaters, let him defend his stance here with real people. Please look at the quotes, especially the bold parts
     
  4. PreachTony

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    Ah...I can't get that link to open for some reason (probably just my computer), but I can get the ...co.za link to open. Yeah, that guy...
     
  5. Deacon

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    Some thots:

    1. Wrestling with scripture is a good thing and something that many readers don't do.

    2. The phrase in question in Joshua 10:27 is imprecise regarding the exact time - as it would be in a culture before wrist watches,. Literally it is "the time of the sun".

    3. Most (all?) translations render the phrase, "sunset" or something along that line.

    4. Parallel passages that use a similar phrase are found in 1 Kings 22:36 and 2 Chronicles 18:34.

    1 Kings 22:36 (LEB)
    Then the shout passed through the camp about sunset, saying, “Each man to his city and each to his land!”

    2 Chronicles 18:34 (LEB)
    And the battle went on that day, and the king of Israel was propped up in the chariot facing Aramm until the evening. And he died at the time of the going down of the sun.
    Context shows that these passages parallel the Joshua 10:26-27 very well, connecting 'evening' to 'the 'time of the sun'.

    5. Translating what happens in an OT historical passage based upon a speculative NT theology is improper.

    Rob
     
  6. vooks

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    Except we have an unbroken witness of the Talmud and other extrabiblical literature showing how this verse was understood many years before Christianity. The point is, Jews would never leave bodies hanging overnight for whatever reasons because they UNDERSTOOD the same to have been expressly forbidden by Deuteronomy and confirmed by Joshua's actions
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    I see you have read the book on how to influence people and make friends. Good job!:thumbs:
     
  8. Revmitchell

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    So you take a debate from some other board and drag it over here? Really?
     
  9. vooks

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    Am interested in hearing members opinion. In any case, just about any other debate here has been debated elsewhere
     
  10. Revmitchell

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    We do not cite specific debates as the source for starting one here.
     
  11. vooks

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    Ok. What do we do now?
     
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Four Gospel writers ... no World Wrestling Organisation's <wrestling> clowns!

    Here: Mark 15:42 John 19:31,38 Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50

    1A) HERE BEGINS the NIGHT and the FIRST of the “three days”, “according to the Scriptures” – the passover–Scriptures :–
    wherein Jesus ENTERED IN in “the Kingdom of my Father” (Jesus’ Jonah’s descent to hell) :–
    Mk14:12/17; Mt26:17/20; Lk22:7/14; Jn13:1.

    1B) HERE BEGINS the MORNING of the FIRST of the “three days”, “according to the Scriptures” – the passover–Scriptures :–
    in which Jesus was delivered and crucified :–
    Mk15:1/Mt27:1/Lk23:1/Jn19:14

    1C) HERE is the LATE NOON AND MID–AFTERNOON of the FIRST of the “three days”, “according to the Scriptures” – the passover–Scriptures :–
    when Jesus DIED and was deserted by all :–
    Mk15:37–41; Mk27:50–56; Lk23:44–49; Jn19:28–30


    2A) HERE BEGINS the SECOND of the “three days”, “according to the Scriptures” – the passover–Scriptures :–
    the day whereon Joseph WOULD BURY the body of Jesus :–
    Mk15:42/Mt27:57, Lk23:50–51, Jn19:31/38.
    “The Feast of Unleavened Bread” Exodus 12:15b
    = “The Preparation …
    = “… which is the Fore-Sabbath …
    = “… for THAT DAY WAS great day sabbath” of passover.
    = FRIDAY!
    = Abib 15, Thursday night and Friday day = Sixth Day ....


    2B) HERE is the NIGHT of the SECOND of the “three days”, “according to the Scriptures” – the passover–Scriptures :–
    wherein Joseph begged the body, and according to the law of the Jews – the passover’s law – undertook and prepared to bury Jesus:–
    “the first night” unleavened bread was eaten John 19:39
    Mk15:43–46a; Mt27:58–59; Lk23:52–53a; Jn19:31b–40

    2C) HERE is the LATE NOON AND MID–AFTERNOON of the SECOND of the “three days”, “according to the Scriptures” – the passover–Scriptures :–
    when Joseph and Nicodemus had laid the body and had closed the tomb; and men and women left for home :–
    Mk15:46b–47; Mk27:60–61; Lk23:53b–56a; JN19:41–42
     
  13. vooks

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    Hopelessly incoherent as usual. They crucified Jesus around 1200H, he died around 1500H. Now, please and intelligently demonstrate that Joseph of Arimathea took the body off the cross the following morning
     
  14. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Where does that <someone>, <argue>, <<<1. Joshua slew and hanged the men IN the evening,>>>?

    You must practice your <wrestling> more and more sincere, buddy!

     
    #14 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 7, 2015
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  15. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    This wrestler doesn't know his grips!

    He has no grip on the fact words mean something, and therefore they are used, and therefore cannot just be omitted.

    Like this same wrestler was doing with the word he suffers dyslexia for, the word, "SINCE".

    Now it is the word "ALL" in Joshua 10:27 [not in verse <26> by the way]. It is not <<<remain on the tree>>>; it is "not remain on the tree ALL night" but, must be removed BEFORE the "sun RISES" ---which by the buy, is ALSO in the very Text referred to by this giants taunting pigmy wrestler.


     
    #15 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 7, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2015
  16. vooks

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    You did sir because the last time I checked the sun sets in the evening
    http://www.biblestudents.co.za/docs/html/Buried Before Sunset.htm
     
  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    There aren't that many, you know. Two or three, to be approximately right.

    Depending of course if you consider there are about 16 -- yes SIXTEEN of the exact same "day" --- 'ha-etsem-ha-yom-hahu' : "the-day-the-BONE-the very same" for all practical purposes exclusive THE BONE DAY OF THE PASSOVER OF YAHWEH!

    Now this very day was the day ON WHICH, "IN THIS SELFSAME [BONE]-NIGHT to be solemnly observed", those "going out forth out of the land of Egypt", "had to EAT the flesh with unleavened bread" : in the promised land, "on the fifteenth day of the First Month in the NIGHT" -- 'ereb' AFTER sunset. Leviticus 23:6 et al.

     
    #17 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 7, 2015
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  18. vooks

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    Profuse apologies sir,
    I meant VERSIONS not verses.
    It's quite simple; don't leave bodies hanging OVERNIGHT. Not, don't hang them bodies for 11 hours of the night and remove them just before dawn:tonofbricks:

    Joshua understood this and so all his kills were hanged till sunset
    Jews followed this closely because they understood it perfectly. The only difference between a Jewish crucifixion and Romn was the Jews never suffered bodies to hang overnight. Do yourself a favor and study some history for a change

    You are forcing your illogical bias into Joshua, instead of killing and hanging then till evening, you FORCE him to kill and hang them in the evening and remove them at dawn. Why so? Because this clearly blows out of water your Thursday crucifixion-Friday burial nonsense. You would have Jesus on the cross for over 12 hours just to 'fit' into your theories
     
    #18 vooks, May 7, 2015
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  19. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    Just to make clear an 'issue' of little concern, because there are many factors which in context usually make definitively sure which time of day it is, whether 'ereb' - "late" in the after noon day before sunset; or 'ereb', 'late' AFTER sunset in the "evening" or and "NIGHT".

    No problem.

    Why, no one noteworthy has ever found any difficulty with the two aspects of the same concept of being "late"!
     
  20. Gerhard Ebersoehn

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    In any case, in Deuteronomy 21:23 (as in Joshua 10:27) it not only was 'ereb', but "STAY not ALL NIGHT" -- 'leen' / 'loon', "STAY OVERNIGHT" : "lodge" like "Adam LODGED not one day" because NEXT MORNING God cast him out of Eden "in the East with flaming sword" of the "WORD OF GOD" cf. Hebrews 4: 12.

    'Leen' is no 'loony', 'lullaby' for anyone crucified ....
     
    #20 Gerhard Ebersoehn, May 7, 2015
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