Ya'll's thoughts.

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by percho, Nov 14, 2013.

  1. percho

    percho
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    DHK wrote this in another thread; When did the church begin.

    DHK:
    Not quite. Throughout the entire Bible salvation is being "justified by faith," a Scripture from the OT and quoted three times in the NT.


    Why do you think that in bold is not verbatim from the OT?
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    Where you come off with this 'Ya'll' stuff? Where you from boy? :)
     
  3. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Uh, gee ... maybe because he wasn't quoting the OT, but the concept?

    Just FYI, the concept appears in Genesis 15:6 and is stated that Abram's "believing God" was then "reckoned to him as righteousness." The word "reckoned" is the Hebrew chashab and means to judge, impute, or to be accounted to. That's hard to argue with, I believe.
     
  4. percho

    percho
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    South of you. x2 down the river.
     
  5. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    He must be a Volunteer.

    (We beat you guys, too. :saint: )
     
  6. percho

    percho
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    Could it be a quote after the fact of what is quoted?

    That is in the concept of Gal. 3:23 first six Greek words and Gal 3:25 first four Greek words?

    before the coming of the faith / the faith having come

    The Just shall live by his faith.

    The just shall live by faith.
     
  7. percho

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    More like a Bulldog.
     
  8. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    So you're attempting to say we must be sinless? How's that working out?

    I ask this in light of the fact that, particularly, you didn't correctly translate the words. You're trying to make them sensible in a direct English equivalent, and that's not possible. More accurately, a literal direct English translation would read: "before of-the-one moreover to-have-had-come to-the-one to-a-trust, ... " and "of-having-had-come moreover of-the-one of-a-trust ... " which doesn't make sense at all, at least not to anyone alive today. The NASB gets it right in translating it "But before faith came ... " and "But now that faith has come ... "

    Now, the question is, how are we to read this? After all, faith is first identified in this world as having been expressed by Abram outside his tent in the King's Valley. So when does Paul see this faith "coming" as he expressed in the letter to the church at Galatia? He sees it as coming in the embodiment of Christ, the Author and Finisher of our faith. "Of the one" can be an expression of the One who delivered us into that faith, the fulfillment of God's promise to Abram, to Moses, to David and all the other Old Testament saints to whom God indicated that a Savior was to be given, and that when He was, faith in Him would be the only criteria for salvation.
     
  9. Jerome

    Jerome
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    Hab. 2:4?:null:
     
  10. percho

    percho
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    Actually I used YLT but left off the conj. to match number of words.

    I would say the only way we could be sinless would to be to have the righteousness of God imputed to us because Christ shed his blood (died) for us.

    Therefore just what is the faith/faithfulness by which we are made just?

    Verse 24 YLT so that the law became our child-conductor -- to Christ, that by faith we may be declared righteous,
    RSV So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith.

    So it appears the faith/faithfulness that justifies, declares righteous is relative to Christ and came at a specific time/moment. Contrary to faith being what one may or may not believe.

    Christ died (shed his blood) for our sins. However is that the faith/faithfulness by which we are justified, made righteous?

    Righteousness isn't imputed to us because we believe Christ died for our sins.
    Faith did not come when Christ died for our sins. When did it come?

    And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17

    The resurrection of Jesus validated his death (shed blood) for us. That is when the faith came and we could be imputed with the righteousness of God.

    It was determined before the foundation of the world that the Son of God would shed his blood for those to be created and there was a promise made of the hope of eternal life also a that time.

    It appears to me that the faith/faithfulness by which we can be imputed with the righteousness of God was the Son of God dying and the Father of the Son raising the Son to eternal life.

    Unto Christ that by faith we may be declared righteous,

    The substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.

    Before Christ/faith came. Hab 2:6 The just shall life by his faith.
    After the death and resurrection to life of Christ. The just shall live by faith.

    Or put this way:

    But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Rom 5:8-10

    The law of faith.
     
  11. percho

    percho
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    I ask.

    Is faith something that wells up from within man or is faith the work of God by which man can be made the righteousness of God?
     
  12. kyredneck

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    OK percho, that IS the way 'you all' talk down there, you can say 'y'all' all you want. :)

    ...the righteous by his stedfastness liveth. Hab 2:4 YLT

    ... the righteous one by faith shall live Ro 1:17 YLT

    ...The righteous by faith shall live Gal 3:11 YLT
     

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