Yay! Baptist Nabs Lutheran Church

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Jerome, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. Jerome

    Jerome
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,607
    Likes Received:
    44
    Liberty University grad gains control over Lutheran (ELCA) congregation and its sizable assets:

    York Daily Record: St. Paul Lutheran Church dissolves over power issues; fight over money ensues

     
  2. Walter

    Walter
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,285
    Likes Received:
    2
    People are fleeing ELCA parishes in droves. There is an ELCA parish in my home town that is trying to decide whether to become LCMS or not. I believe there biggest issue with the LCMS is their not allowing women pastors.

    Good for this congregation for getting out! The ELCA took a leap off a very steep cliff in their decision to ordain 'partnered' homosexuals. I hope they grow and prosper! :thumbsup:

    Time for congregations faithful to God's word and affiliated with liberal synods and conventions to stand up for Jesus. I know there are quite a few on this board that would encourage them to stay and fight, but these inside strategies have not worked in denominations like the UCC, PCUSA, Episcopal Church, and ELCA.
     
    #2 Walter, Aug 12, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2013
  3. go2church

    go2church
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    4,304
    Likes Received:
    6
    If they wanted to be Lutheren they should have found a Lutheren pastor. Nothing to celebrate, rude to say so.
     
  4. Walter

    Walter
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,285
    Likes Received:
    2
    'The council decided to leave the ELCA and rename the church St. Paul Community Church. Edmondson was made full-time pastor in January 2007.

    The full congregational votes on both issues were nearly unanimous.'

    Sounds to me like the congregation is fed up with the un-biblical actions of the Lutheran synod (ELCA) and probably couldn't stomach the liberal tripe being spewed by the candidates being sent by ELCA.

    As I said in my previous post, not every parish looking to leave the heretical ELCA synod see either LCMS or WELS as an alternative. I know of a former ELCA parish that worship as a congregation with a former PCUSA church in upstate New York. They use a liturgy much closer to what one finds in the Lutheran church and the sermons (given by the former PCUSA pastor) sound more like what you might here in a EV. Free Church. There are obvious doctrinal differences between the Lutherans and Presbies but they have managed to worship together, celebrate the Lords Supper together and have common baptisms. Very small town and both churches average Sunday attendance was not more than 250 combined, but when the denominations these churches were affiliated with embraced gay ordination they became willing to try and merge in a way that would allow both churches to continue and stop the exodus. I understand attendance has increased since this merged worship service and many people who had stopped attending have returned.
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,912
    Likes Received:
    94
    Why didn't they move to WELS they are orthodox?
     
  6. Walter

    Walter
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,285
    Likes Received:
    2
    Indeed, WELS is orthodox. However, any church with that synod must be in in full agreement concerning all of the doctrines WELS teaches which they believe are substantiated in Scripture. I suspect there may have been eschatolical differences or WELS strict requirements in the way liturgy is conducted. WELS would point to the Lutheran Confessions in their defense of liturgical worship.

    Only speculating why they chose to completely detach from their Lutheran roots. The LCMS is much more flexible in matter of liturgy and the local LCMS parish in my town allows for any Christian who believes in Christ's presence in elements of the Lord's Supper to receive communion. Many other LCMS parishes insists that only LCMS members (or members of other Lutheran bodies) may receive communion after speaking to the pastor.

    In reading the article, it sounded to me like the people of the congregation were more concerned about carrying on with the business of bringing people into a relationship with Christ and probably perceived that deciding to affiliate with another Lutheran synod would bring division no matter which one was decided upon. This is not that unusual for Lutheran churches that choose to leave the Lutheran synod they belong to. Remember that the Evangelical Free and the Evangelical Covenant churches were mainly comprised of Lutherans that did not affiliate themselves with Lutheran synods in the United States.
     
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,912
    Likes Received:
    94
    I only know that there will be zero cohesion with Calvinistic types of Baptists.....therefore there probably gravitating towards arminian theology.
     
  8. Doubting Thomas

    Doubting Thomas
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2003
    Messages:
    2,615
    Likes Received:
    6
    For a while, at the beginning of our ACNA mission parish, we had a couple from ELCA worshipping with us. However, they ultimately didn't join us because our diocese doesn't ordain women to the presbyteriate and that couple personally believed in WO.

    (As an aside, if there was no traditional, conservative Anglican parish in town, I'd probably be going to the local LCMS congregation)
     
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,912
    Likes Received:
    94
    So let me understand this ......its a time for celebration when a Baptist disassembles a Lutheran congregation but when a Calvinistic Baptist attempts to push his theology in an SBC then he is scum of the earth? WOW!
     
  10. Jerome

    Jerome
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2006
    Messages:
    5,607
    Likes Received:
    44
    No, having witnessed an even more egregious church destruction/takeover by 'Reformed' partisans, I assure you that that 'Yay!' was entire facetious, EWF.
     
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,912
    Likes Received:
    94
    And what would be your third alternative..... roman catholic perhaps?
     
  12. Walter

    Walter
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    1,285
    Likes Received:
    2
    :laugh: Well, you guessed it!

    Actually, I have noticed that in the area I live in more people leaving ELCA affiliated parishes are joining ACNA (Anglican Church of North America) parishes than with other Lutheran synods. The vast majority of Episcopal churches in the Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin withdrew from TEC a few years back and became a diocese within ACNA. However, there are parts of the country where people have to drive 50-75 miles in order to find an ACNA affiliated church. The ACNA parishes in my area are thriving and the few Episcopal churches left in the area will probably soon close their doors once the few people that still attend die off. The average age in TEC churches in my area looks to be about 60. Most of these are pew potatoes that do not have a clue what is actually going on inside of TEC and are determined die as a part of that denomination. An Anglican friend of mine told me that the ASA (average Sunday attendance) in 7 Episcopal churches and missions in the Central Valley has fallen off significantly, although tithes have increased (this seems to be a trend in churches that are in a 'death spiral'. People increase their giving to try to stave off the inevitable closing of their parish. There are five diocese that were formerly TEC diocese that have withdrawn from that denomination and affiliated with ACNA. Happening in Canada as well but so far just individual parishes withdrawing from ultra-lib 'Anglican Church of Canada'.

    BTW, not sure how familiar you are with The Evangelical Covenant Church, but as I mentioned before, they have Lutheran roots and also are receiving ELCA refugees.

    There used to be Lutheran participants on this board that certainly would have a better understanding of the polity of the ELCA and how easy (or difficult) it is to leave that denomination and keep their properties. The Episcopal Church saw what was coming when they voted to consecrate Viki-Gene Robinson as their first openly partnered gay bishop and rammed a canon through at their General Convention (after some diocese had already withdrawn) basically saying 'individual can leave The Episcopal Church but parishes and diocese are held in trust for The Episcopal Church and future Episcopalians.

    The leadership of The Episcopal Church after years of claiming that it is NOT a hierarchical church above the diocesan level, is now claiming that they are. There is a reason why the founders of The Episcopal Church in the U.S. did not confer the title ' Archbishop' upon the bishop elected at General Convention and use the title 'Presiding Bishop'. That is what her (Katherine-Jefferts Schori) function is, to 'preside over the General Convention'. She is supposed to be considered 'first among equals'.

    So far most of the lawsuits have been decided in TEC's favor as a result of their being able to sell their claim of being hierarchical to the judges. In the San Joaquin diocese, some rulings have been in favor of The Episcopal Church and those properties have been returned to them. In other cases (and using the EXACT same facts of the case) the courts have sided with ACNA and they have retained their properties and all 'da silver.

    Maybe the congregation of the OP wants to avoid this whole mess and take an easier road as a Baptist church. Reading the article it does sound like they have money issues to work through although the building has already been purchased. Good for them! Again, I hope they grow and disciple many new members.
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    18,912
    Likes Received:
    94
    As ive stated on BB many times, the makeup of the church & its theological adheriences should be left alone & if you don't like...go somewhere else.
     

Share This Page

Loading...