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Ye must be born again !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Jun 24, 2011.

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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    It behooves me to see people use nomenclature that they are either unable to define or else assign the wrong meaning to the word.
    What is "freewill salvation," and who here believes in it? If those whom you are addressing don't believe in freewill to whom are you speaking? The wind?

    Faith does come before regeneration, except in the minds of a Calvinist who has been indoctrinated to believe otherwise. There is no Scripture that teaches that God gives spiritual gifts or the fruit of the Spirit to unregenerate people. Such a theology is preposterous. The individual must first come to Christ by faith and faith alone.

    Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (Romans 5:1)
    But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (John 1:12)

    By faith he is made a child of God. By faith he enters into the Kingdom of God. By faith he is justified. By faith he has peace with God.
    It is at this point that God adopts him into his family and he is fully regenerated, made alive in Christ, saved, sins forgiven, atoned for, and given eternal life.

    The man-made logic of Calvinism is just that--logic taken from Calvin. Calvin took his system of theology from Augustine. One should think carefully about this, for Augustine was not one of the Early Church Fathers. But he was one of the "fathers" of the RCC. And they adore him dearly. Is it any coincidence that only 50 years after the death of Augustine, Mohammed was born? It seems that perhaps these two men had more in common than one may first realize.
     
    #281 DHK, Sep 23, 2011
  2. lakeside

    lakeside New Member

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    You must be "born again " the Bible way, not the way that mere-man invented their born again version around the 16-17th century.
     
    #282 lakeside, Nov 17, 2011
  3. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Absolutely. You will not have eternal life without it.
     
    #283 Alive in Christ, Nov 17, 2011
  4. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    But you don't know what the Bible way is. You are very superstitious in your belief. You believe that for every two atoms of hydrogen to one atom of oxygen, these held in great abundance and applied to an individual, will wash away their sins. That those chemicals (H2O) can wash away any sin is pure superstition, and is akin to the Hindu belief of jumping into the Ganges River believing that its polluted waters can wash away their sins. Is there a difference? Of course not. Water does not and cannot wash away sin, no matter what context it is put in. Only the blood of Jesus Christ can do that.

    And yet the Catholic Catechism clearly says that the new birth = baptism.
    Such heresy!!
     
    #284 DHK, Nov 18, 2011
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Not only so, but it is the conscience that is being purged of "dead works" by the blood. The conscience is not a materialistic thing but spiritual. What is being purged is guilt due to the condemnation of the law which guilt moves a person to seek to be absolved from that guilt by his own works. The reason they are called "dead" is because the sinner is seeking to satisfy the Law's rightous demands by his own works which always "come short of the glory of God" and thus conclude with the condemnation of DEATH under the Law:

    Heb. 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

    The "blood" of any sacrifice represented the LIFE of that sacrifice symbolized by a pure and spotless lamb. Thus it respresents the SINLES RIGHTEOUSNESS of the Son of God that satisfied completely the righteous demands of God's law, thus obtaining LIFE as the verdict of the law instead of CONDEMNATION. It is this message of complete satisfaction of the righteous demands of God's Law, or the good news of the gospel that "purges" the conscience of both its guilt and its response to that guilt which is the attempt to appease guilt by our own good works.

    Baptism is the response of a conscience already cleansed and "good" (1 Pet. 3:21).

    The words "the blood of Christ" are metaphorical for the message of the gospel that the LIFE (blood represents the life of the sacrfice) of Christ as fully satisfied all the demands of the Law in regard to both its righteous demands not to come short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23 - moral holiness/righteousness of God) and the penalty of coming short. This "good news" is applied to our conscience by the power of the Holy Spirit to remove all guilt and any motivation to attempt to satisfy the law by our own good works. HENCE WE ARE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH IN THE GOSPEL before ever touching a drop of water.
     
    #285 The Biblicist, Nov 18, 2011
  6. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    More on being born again !



    Jn 3:8

    7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    To be born again is not a command for people to go out and try to make themselves born again, by things they must do, for that is not what Jesus is Talking about. What Jesus is saying is that another you must be born again, a whole New Creation apart from Being born of the Flesh, or natural Childbirth. The you that we are by Nature, is not changed or altered, but an additional you, from another source must be born. You see, we must be born out of an incorruptible seed. The life we [The Elect] were given in Adam was out of an corruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23

    23Being born again, not of corruptible seed[Adam], but of incorruptible[Christ], by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    However, in order to be born again there must be a Life that we already have in the Incorruptible Seed, which is The Word of God, or the Logos of God, who is Jesus Christ, the Seed Gal 3:16

    16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

    We must have had a seed substance Life or existence in Christ, as we had in Adam, to be born again of the Spirit. So Jesus in His conversation with Nicodemus was informing him, unless a man has a seminal[Spiritual] existence in the incorruptible seed [Christ], they shall not see or enter the kingdom of God. Folks the Spiritual Birth that John writes of in Jn 3, is in no way related to the flesh, its origin is out of a whole different realm Jn 3:6a

    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    And what is really insane today is the false teaching that a Spiritual New Birth is a product of the flesh, the natural mans faith or his freewill or his decision causes it, in total contradiction to Jn 1:12-13

    12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

    They are teaching that the right to become a Child of God was by the will of the flesh, but that right was not because of the will of the flesh or of man, but it was out of the Will of God ! The fact of the matter is this, we had no choice or say so in being born physically out of adam, nor out of Christ, if we belong to Christ !
     
    #286 savedbymercy, Mar 10, 2012
  7. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    What is the grammatical and theological difference between "you must be born again" and the various admonitions to stop sinning? (besides the negative when referring to sin)
     
    #287 billwald, Mar 10, 2012
  8. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    The other Sunday I had one of our 3rd graders ask me about being born again and I tried to tell him it was an imperative mood. He didn't seem to get it either. :tongue3:

    Thank God He made it simple! Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved!!!!
     
    #288 steaver, Mar 11, 2012
  9. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Being born of the incorruptible seed, is being born out of Christ, being in or of His Seed. Christ is the Logos of God ! 1 Pet 1:23

    23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    Jesus Christ was the Logos made Flesh Jn 1:1,14 and When He died and rose again, He had His Seed in Him. Now everyone belonging to that Seed is Born Again by the Resurrection of the Word of God, Jesus Christ from the Dead. 1 Pet 1:3

    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    Now notice how this is complemented . Being born again by incorruptible Seed, the Word of God.

    Being Born Again here is the greek word anagennaō and it means:


    to produce again, be born again, born anew

    2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

    Now this word is used again in 1 Pet 1:3

    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    That confirms what 1 Pet 1:23 is saying, Being born out of the incorruptible Seed, who is the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Now, one had to be seminally in Christ's Incorruptible Seed Substance to be born out of it, in the same manner they would have had to been seminally in Adam's Seed Substance to be born out of Him !

    So New Birth is impossible without having been Chosen in Christ before the foundation [Eph 1:4], because thats when He received His Seed or generation, so believers were a Chosen Generation 1 Pet 2:9

    But ye are a chosen generation or Offspring], a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

    So Eph 1:4 and 1 Pet 2:9 complement one another Those Chosen in Christ before the foundation are the Chosen Generation of 1 Pet 2:9 !
     
    #289 savedbymercy, Mar 11, 2012
  10. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    If a person is born again by a decision of the will or the flesh, then they are born by the will of the flesh, of which conclusions clearly contradict Jn 1:13

    12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
     
    #290 savedbymercy, Mar 12, 2012
  11. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    A person is not born again by any decision of the will. Being born of God is an act of God. One only needs to ask God for His salvation and then God does His work of regeneration.

    This is explained in John 4:10,

    "Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water".

    We see here Jesus explains one must "ask" and then the "living water" (which is the Holy Spirit rebirth) will be given.

    BTW, there was no such thing as "born again" until after Jesus was glorified, for the Holy Spirit was not yet given in that manner until then (see John 7:39)
     
    #291 steaver, Mar 12, 2012
  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    30 page limit.
     
    #292 DHK, Mar 12, 2012
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