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"yea, hath God said?"

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by robycop3, Sep 13, 2004.

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  1. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Circular reasoning. It in no wise talks about or refers to there being one version only. Get real. the MV's say the same thing...so your point is moot!


    AVL1984
     
    #21 AVL1984, Sep 15, 2004
  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Michelle:Actually Satan made Eve doubt God's word by saying Yeah, hath God said? ye shall NOT EAT of every tree. Satan changed the word of God, and deleted from it - freely.

    Actually, Satan SUMMED UP what God had said, w/o quoting Him exactly, same as WE do today, both with Scripture and the everyday mundane things of life. For example, you might tell your hubby, "I'm making burgers and lasagne for supper this evening", and a little later, the phone rings, your hubby answers, and he says, "Michelle's fixing supper right now". Would either of you be wrong?


    This made her reason about it and ADDED to the word of God - neither shall ye touch it-

    We know what God told ADAM, but we don't know what He may have told EVE. We CANNOT say for sure if He told her not to touch it or not.


    and deleted also from it - freely -

    See my firat paragraph above.


    and Satan added to God's word again, denying the truth - Ye shall not surely die.

    No, those were SATAN'S OWN words, not an addition to GOD'S words. He was CONTRADICTING God.


    Eve was tricked into Satan's lie, because she added to/deleted from and reasoned with God's words/command, because Satan not only questioned God, but changed and deleted from it in his question.

    Actually, it was because she believed Satan over God.


    Eve did not say exactly what God had commanded, Satan saw it and used it to decieve her. We can see this because she also does not mention the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but she said "the tree in the midst of the garden" - altering of God's word (paraphrase?).

    Michelle, this is silly. WE don't quote each other exactly all that often, and Eve, our ancestor, was as human as we are. The gist of God's command was simple...the tree in question was off-limits by God's command...and Eve chose to disobey. To try to associate something like this with God's word is ludicrous.


    Satan then used this to say that God Knew that if they ate of it, they would be as gods, knowing good and evil. This tempted her flesh, and she reasoned it, ultimately doubting God's truth and disobeying his command. She believed Satan's words, over God's words. She apparently did not know God's words well enouph, to escape this tempation/deception.

    Seems as if she knew God's command well enough, but she chose to disobey it...bottom line.

    Even people who DON'T know God's commands that well still know murder, stealing, adultery, etc. are wrong, but they do them anyway. However, Eve knew God directly, and knew His command directly, but chose to believe the devil. This has nothing to do with God's exact words.

    "Yea, hath God said?"
    Nay, God hath NOT said, "Thou shalt be KJVO.
     
    #22 robycop3, Sep 15, 2004
  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Askjo:MVs defenders, can't you see her comment here? How did the Satan deal deceitfully God's Word against Eve during tempting her.

    Apples & oranges. Satan simply DENIED the truth of God's words, and directly contradicted them, I.E. "You shall NOT die".


    Likewise modern versions are produced by Christians who followed the naturalistic method and unbelievers.

    My, MY...The KJVOs are really getting desperate to sustain their myth.

    Askjo, you're really trying a stretch...but it's passed the ripping point long ago.
     
    #23 robycop3, Sep 15, 2004
  4. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Askjo asked:

    MVs defenders, can't you see her comment here?

    Of course, it takes up the entire screen, though it doesn't say much!
     
    #24 Ransom, Sep 15, 2004
  5. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Circular reasoning. It in no wise talks about or refers to there being one version only. Get real. the MV's say the same thing...so your point is moot!
    --------------------------------------------------


    And that wasn't the topic of this thread, nor the point I was showing.

    However, since you brought it up, Do you think by reading about Eve's temptation, that God had one version of his word, and they had another?


    love in Jesus Christo our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #25 michelle, Sep 15, 2004
  6. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    No, those were SATAN'S OWN words, not an addition to GOD'S words. He was CONTRADICTING God.

    --------------------------------------------------

    And how was it that they were his own words, when Satan was quoting to Eve what God had said, with the added word."not"? He was using the words of God to decieve her. In fact, Eve left of this word "surely" and Satan added it back in, also adding "not" to it. Satan messed with the words of God to decieve Eve. I clearly showed to you how they were God's words that were added to, or deleted from, or altered. In fact, the scriptures themselves show you this.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #26 michelle, Sep 15, 2004
  7. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Actually, it was because she believed Satan over God.

    --------------------------------------------------

    Let me remind you what I posted again:


    --------------------------------------------------
    She believed Satan's words, over God's words. She apparently did not know God's words well enouph, to escape this tempation/deception.
    --------------------------------------------------


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #27 michelle, Sep 15, 2004
  8. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Michelle, this is silly. WE don't quote each other exactly all that often, and Eve, our ancestor, was as human as we are. The gist of God's command was simple...the tree in question was off-limits by God's command...and Eve chose to disobey. To try to associate something like this with God's word is ludicrous.
    --------------------------------------------------


    It is not silly as you so claim. Anyone who has a desire not to be decieved, or fall into tempation, would question what made Eve sin? We all Know that she disobeyed God. This is obvious. The question to be asked and learned of in this, is how and why?

    By the way, what we quote as human beings, is not the same thing as God's words of truth, to which he has preserved and to which are eternal. God was very specific in his command, and Eve didn't remember his specific commands, and this is what decieved her.


    God did not give us all that information just to make the story sound good to our ears. God has a purpose for everything. It is up to us, and our desire to learn what God intends for us to learn out of this through study and prayer.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #28 michelle, Sep 15, 2004
  9. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Seems as if she knew God's command well enough, but she chose to disobey it...bottom line.

    --------------------------------------------------


    Then why do you suppose God told us before Eve sinned, that the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field? Why did Eve tell God that he beguiled her? God never tells us Eve was wrong in that assesment. What exactly, or how exactly was Satan subtle? Subtle with, and about what?


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #29 michelle, Sep 15, 2004
  10. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Satan gave God's word back to Eve...and Eve added to it. Then Satan disputed what she added to it...thou shalt not surely die. The point is she could have said "God said we're not supposed to touch the tree in the center of the Garden", and it still would have been correct, though not in the exact words of God. Again...get real.

    AVL1984
     
    #30 AVL1984, Sep 15, 2004
  11. natters

    natters New Member

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    I would point out that another issue was going on in the Eve/serpent story: it wasn't so much the specific words that created the problem, but the wrong interpretation of those words. The serpent provided a erroneous interpretation, deceiving Eve.
     
    #31 natters, Sep 15, 2004
  12. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Michelle:Actually Satan made Eve doubt God's word by saying Yeah, hath God said? ye shall NOT EAT of every tree. Satan changed the word of God, and deleted from it - freely.

    Actually, Satan SUMMED UP what God had said, w/o quoting Him exactly, same as WE do today, both with Scripture and the everyday mundane things of life. For example, you might tell your hubby, "I'm making burgers and lasagne for supper this evening", and a little later, the phone rings, your hubby answers, and he says, "Michelle's fixing supper right now". Would either of you be wrong?
    --------------------------------------------------

    Like I said above, our words, are NOT THE SAME as God's words. Satan didn't sum up anything. He put God's truth in a question form, and twisted God's word of truth while taking away from it. They were God's words, in question form, but added to it, to change the meaning, while taking away from it also.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #32 michelle, Sep 15, 2004
  13. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    I would point out that another issue was going on in the Eve/serpent story: it wasn't so much the specific words that created the problem, but the wrong interpretation of those words. The serpent provided a erroneous interpretation, deceiving Eve.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    And how does God show us Satan did this Natters?
    What was Satan's tool for decieving Eve?


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #33 michelle, Sep 15, 2004
  14. natters

    natters New Member

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    michelle said "And how does God show us Satan did this Natters?"

    Uh, it's in the Bible.

    michelle said "What was Satan's tool for decieving Eve?"

    His subtilty. He subtly altered the correct meaning/interpretation of God's words.
     
    #34 natters, Sep 15, 2004
  15. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    His subtilty. He subtly altered the correct meaning/interpretation of God's words.
    --------------------------------------------------


    How did he do this?


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #35 michelle, Sep 15, 2004
  16. natters

    natters New Member

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    michelle asked "How did he do this?"

    I just told you. By implying and leading Eve to believe a wrong understanding/interpretation of the words.

    If you ask me again, I'll tell you the same thing again, even though this post makes it the third time I've said it. [​IMG]
     
    #36 natters, Sep 15, 2004
  17. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    I just told you. By implying and leading Eve to believe a wrong understanding/interpretation of the words.

    --------------------------------------------------

    You didn't explain "HOW he did this. Why do you not explain HOW Satan implied and lead Eve to believe a wrong understanding/interpretation of God's words?


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #37 michelle, Sep 15, 2004
  18. natters

    natters New Member

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    Oh my goodness, michelle.

    First, the serpent entered into a conversation, asking Eve about what God said - the serpent asked "Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" Next, when Eve answered, the serpent explicitly denied God's word. God said they would die, the serpent said "Ye shall not surely die". Next, he fabricated a story as to why God lied to them, he said "For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

    He fed her a straight up denial, followed by a fabrication, giving her a wrong understanding and Eve bought it. What else do you want me to say???
     
    #38 natters, Sep 15, 2004
  19. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    First, the serpent entered into a conversation, asking Eve about what God said
    --------------------------------------------------


    What does a conversation entail? Why are you not admitting the obvious and avoiding it like the plague?


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
    #39 michelle, Sep 15, 2004
  20. natters

    natters New Member

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    Michelle, I don't know how much clearer I can answer your questions. I am not avoiding the obvious, I even directly quoted everying the serpent said. Perhaps if you could explain what exactly you want from me, I can provide it.
     
    #40 natters, Sep 15, 2004
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