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Yet more dynamic equivalence in the KJV

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by natters, Aug 29, 2004.

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  1. natters

    natters New Member

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    Here are some more examples of dynamic equivalence in the KJV. These are not found by me, nor have any modern scholars uncovered these - these are from the Translators themselves, indicated in their notes int the 1611 KJV. They appear on almost every page, here are a few random pages worth of notes. In these instances, has the KJV preserved "words" or "thoughts"?

    2 Sam 18:3
    KJV has "care for us", "worth" and "succor", Hebrew has "set their heart upon us", "as" and "be to succor"

    2 Sam 18:8
    KJV has "devoured", Hebrew has "multiplied to devour"

    2 Sam 18:12
    KJV has "receive" and "beware", Hebrew has "weigh upon my hand" and "beware whosoever ye be of"

    2 Sam 18:14
    KJV has "with thee" and "midst", Hebrew has "before thee" and "heart"

    2 Sam 18:19
    KJV has "avenged him of his enemies", Hebrew has "avenged him from the hand of his enemies"

    2 Sam 18:20
    KJV has "Thou shalt not bear tidings", Hebrew has "Thou shalt be a man of tidings"

    2 Sam 18:22
    KJV has "however", Hebrew has "be what may"

    2 Sam 18:27
    KJV has "Me thinketh the running", Hebrew has "I see the running"

    2 Sam 18:28
    KJV has "All is well" and "delivered up", Hebrew has "peace" and "shut up"

    2 Sam 18:31
    KJV has "Tidings", Hebrew has "Tidings is brought"

    2 Sam 19:2
    KJV has "victory", Hebrew has "salvation" or "deliverance"

    2 Sam 19:6
    KJV has "In that thou lovest" and "that thou regardest neither princes, nor servants", Hebrew has "By loving" and "that princes or servants are not to thee"

    2 Sam 19:7
    KJV has "comfortably unto thy servants", Hebrew has "to the heart of thy servants"

    2 Sam 19:10
    KJV has "speak ye not a word", Hebrew has "are ye silent?"

    And on that note: KJVOs, why are these examples of dynamic equivalence in the KJV? How is this "word" preservation? "Speak ye not a word"? "Are ye silent"? [​IMG]
     
    #1 natters, Aug 29, 2004
  2. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    "Silence is as full of potential wisdom and wit as the unhewn marble of great sculpture."

    Aldous Huxley (1894-1963), British author. Walter Bidlake, in Point Counter Point, ch. 1 (1928).


    The Columbia Dictionary of Quotations is licensed from Columbia University Press. Copyright © 1993, 1995 by Columbia University Press. All rights reserved.
     
    #2 Pastor_Bob, Aug 29, 2004
  3. natters

    natters New Member

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    Pastor_Bob said ""Silence is as full of potential wisdom and wit as the unhewn marble of great sculpture." Aldous Huxley"

    Is that the same as "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." (Mark Twain) ? [​IMG] Just kidding.
     
    #3 natters, Aug 29, 2004
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Forget it. Every KJVO knows that the English corrects the Greek and Hebrew.

    For instance, Luke made a mistake and called the passover the passover (who'd of guessed?), The KJV translators corrected him with "easter".

    Another instance is Hebrews 4:8 where they call "Joshua" Jesus. In the KJV First Edition they get it right in the margin but never took the time to correct the text which stand mistranslated to this day. ibid Acts 7:45.

    HankD
     
    #4 HankD, Aug 29, 2004
  5. David J

    David J New Member

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    KJVO Ex Cathreda a.k.a "advanced revelation" is a wonderful thing!
     
    #5 David J, Aug 29, 2004
  6. DeclareHim

    DeclareHim New Member

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    Oh well no KJVO posters. Good point natters. Like all the examples.

    1cross+3nails=4given [​IMG]
     
    #6 DeclareHim, Aug 30, 2004
  7. Bob Rogers

    Bob Rogers New Member

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    Hank:

    Isn`t Joshua the Hebrew eqivelant of Jesus?

    Natters:

    All of your examples of the KJV translators searching for the right choice of words don`t come close to many things in modern versions.

    Bob
     
    #7 Bob Rogers, Aug 30, 2004
  8. natters

    natters New Member

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    Bob Rogers said "All of your examples of the KJV translators searching for the right choice of words don`t come close to many things in modern versions."

    Sometimes, that is true, but that is a separate issue. KJV-onlyism is built upon the premise of perfect preservation of words. Dynamic equivalence in the KJV proves this did not happen in the KJV.
     
    #8 natters, Aug 30, 2004
  9. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Don't confuse them with facts, natters. They don't like it when someone can point out that their kjVERSION isn't perfect, nor was it ever. They still have yet to answer which version of the kjVERSION was the perfect one.

    AVL1984
     
    #9 AVL1984, Aug 31, 2004
  10. Bob Rogers

    Bob Rogers New Member

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    AVL1984:

    A KJVO #5 may get rather obnoxious over these posts. The thing is, that it`s been stated in in another thread about reading Dr. Ruckman`s books. Dr. Ruckman has even been quoted. I don`t see the point in parroting Dr. Ruckman or anyone else to people who have already read those books.

    I know people, who`ve gone from the NIV to the KJV. I know a case of an entire church making the switch. There are many things, like the gender neutral, that have many NIV people upset. All of the serious points are being ignored!

    Bob
     
    #10 Bob Rogers, Aug 31, 2004
  11. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Actually it's the other way around since the Hebrew came first.

    Jesus is/can be the Greco-Anglo equivelant of Joshua.

    The KJV translaters didn't have a problem with "Joshua" in the OT but used "Jesus" in the NT and even corrected themselves in the margin of the First Edition.

    Why didn't they just use "Joshua" in the NT and remove the confusion?

    They had no such problem with "Moses", "Abraham", Isaac", "Jacob", etc...

    When I quote Dr. Ruckman, I do so for everyone's benefit.

    Both KJVO and non-KJVO need to see it so that there can be no question as to the source and the exact meaning of what he is proposing to the Church in order that folks can make up their own minds based on factual quotes rather than hearsay.

    HankD
     
    #11 HankD, Aug 31, 2004
  12. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    I wouldn't know, Bob. I don't take the time to read Dr. Ruckmans book. I don't believe his theories, which are sloppy at best. His life testimony leave much to be desired, and it makes him even less credible. His kjVo stance is something that makes me even more wary of him.

    AVL1984
     
    #12 AVL1984, Aug 31, 2004
  13. Bob Rogers

    Bob Rogers New Member

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    HankD:

    I understood your reasoning. In order for me not to be only anything, I need a viable alternative. I`ve already stated, that I haven`t sat with only the KJV my entire life. The NIV has a boat load of flaws! The TNIV has raised opposition from NIV users.

    Bob
     
    #13 Bob Rogers, Aug 31, 2004
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Bob Rogers:I understood your reasoning. In order for me not to be only anything, I need a viable alternative. I`ve already stated, that I haven`t sat with only the KJV my entire life. The NIV has a boat load of flaws! The TNIV has raised opposition from NIV users.

    We all agree there are some bogus versions out there.

    Bob, are you saying the KJV is perfect? If so, which edition? They're all different.
     
    #14 robycop3, Aug 31, 2004
  15. Bob Rogers

    Bob Rogers New Member

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    robycop3:

    I would have to claim divine inspiration to claim anything is letter perfect. We all know that. I cite the NIV because it`s the most publicized, and it`s used in Bible quizzing I`ve been connected with. Is the NASB better than the NIV? On some points with the NKJV, it depends on what edition. They`re different.

    Bob
     
    #15 Bob Rogers, Aug 31, 2004
  16. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Even the regular KJV's are different, Bob. There are two different versions of the same translation, the Oxford and the Cambridge. So, it makes the probability that the KJV is the only valid version of the Word of God for the English a little bit questionable.

    AVL1984
     
    #16 AVL1984, Sep 1, 2004
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    When the KJV came forth their was opposition from many groups and, I understand, about 120 different versions or version attempts in existance.

    Personally I don't believe the final chapter on the next "received" English Bible has been written yet. I believe it will be based upon the Traditional Texts.

    The NKJV could be it but it needs revision work (after all there was over 200 years of revisions of the AV1611).

    HankD
     
    #17 HankD, Sep 1, 2004
  18. Bob Rogers

    Bob Rogers New Member

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    HankD:

    What do you know about the KJV/21?

    Bob
     
    #18 Bob Rogers, Sep 1, 2004
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    I took a look and I wondered. what's the difference?

    HankD
     
    #19 HankD, Sep 2, 2004
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