You can almost always see them coming...

Forgive me for trolling but I'll come out of retirement for some comments:

AAG- someone earlier (I believe Here Now) mentioned that you sounded exactly like the men in your original post. I second that opinion. You are not good 'especially to those of the household of faith' but rather to the heathen. You wish all of us who value God's choice over mans would go off to some island somewhere so you could turn every church into a 'worship center' and remove any scripture passage referring to election or devine will from the Bible.

Your answers to Monergist went beyond arrogant to just plain rude. If this is how you treat the sinful and needy people who come into your 'worship environment,' I suppose you are in need of more prayer than they.

Daniel Allen
www.spurgeon.us

 

gb93433,

I did not recall ever saying or posting that. However, I went back and re-read my posts to be certain I never said such a thing that I would never have thought of saying.

Sure enough, I find that I never said that!

It look as if those are your own words..........first time I ever saw them is from you.

Thanks I think , KJB

 

All about Grace,

So now that we both agree that God is sovereign in salvation.......and we know you really dont want to go to Mecca during an Islamic holy time.........do you also find that God is also sovereign not only in salvation, but also in damnation?

If He is sovereign in salvation......there must be no other hope other than the will of a merciful God.

What happens to all of the Muslims that never come to Jesus Christ and die on a daily basis?

Do you have an honest and Biblical answer for that?

I do hope you take the time and read about John Calvin and his so called "human system".

Regards, KJB

 

Agreed. For all his complaints against those arrogant Calvinists, just about every post of AAG's in this thread just drips with sanctimony. Oh, if we could only have the vision of AAG!

 

I disagree. I feel AAG's frustration in his post, not sanctimony. I, too, get frustrated when a false doctrine is presented and argued based on intellect, the "who's who" list of reformers, and an emphasis on theology instead of simplifying the Gospel message the way Christ did. I believe AAG did the correct thing, and addressed the group properly. His venting and frustration was with us, not the visitors.

 

webdog, more often than not these things are argued from Scripture not the reformers. If the men of the reformation happened to agree with Scripture praise God!

Calvinists do not confuse the Gospel, it still remains simple. We preach the Gospel of repentance just like the Apostles did.

 

To get off topic for a moment, I went to your site. You claim Spurgeon is the "prince of preachers"? Almost sounds like you are idolizing him.
Why follow man when you have God's Word?

 

So explain, exactly, how one "becomes" a reformer? It can't be based solely on God's Word. I have yet to meet a single person who has become a calvinist by straight reading of the Bible. It has always followed the reading of someone like Macarthur, Spurgeon, Pink, etc. The fact of the matter is, noone is saved thinking they have been irresistably drawn because they are the elect, and the "world" is only a select group.

 

Let me start by addressing the second paragraph first. I never stated that "a person was incapable of living the Christian life until he/she had obtained a certain level of knowledge." What I said was "Knowledge is not antithetical to practice; knowledge fosters correct practice. A Godly practice grows out of Godly knowledge." A person is incapable of living the Christian life without the enabling work and power of the Holy Spirit-- who illuminates the Word of God to us to instruct us in how to live. Like children, we all must be taught, instructed, corrected until we grow to some level of maturity, the full level of which we never meet, so school is never out, even for those who reach a point that like Job they can be called 'blameless." This instruction in knowledge is the task of those who shepherd the flock, the pastors, and any pastor who is not faithfully committed to imparting knowledge to those under his care is not being faithful to his call as the steward of the mysteries of God.

You ask "Can you point to a text where Jesus instructs us to "increase our knowledge" so that we can live the Christian life?" Since "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work" I will not limit my response only to the words of Jesus, but will consider the entirety of scripture.

A lack of knowledge is destructive to the covenant people of God; a rejection of knowledge disqualifies one from leadership.
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.
Isaiah 5:13 Therefore my people have gone into captivity, Because they have no knowledge; Their honorable men are famished, And their multitude dried up with thirst.

Knowledge is to be prayerfully sought from God
Psalm 119:66 Teach me good judgment and knowledge,For I believe Your commandments.
Proverbs 8:12 I, wisdom, dwell with prudence, And find out knowledge and discretion.
Proverbs 23:12 Apply your heart to instruction, And your ears to words of knowledge.
2 Peter 1:5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge,

Fools hate knowledge
Proverbs 1:22 How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? For scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge.

Knowledge is a gift from God
Proverbs 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.
Daniel 1:17 As for these four young men, God gave them knowledge and skill in all literature and wisdom; and Daniel had understanding in all visions and dreams.
Daniel 2:21 And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise And knowledge to those who have understanding.

God's will for man is that he have knowledge
Hosea 6:6 For I desire mercy and not sacrifice, And the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
1 Timothy 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Knowledge is good for the soul
Proverbs 2:10 When wisdom enters your heart, And knowledge is pleasant to your soul.
Proverbs 19:2 Also it is not good for a soul to be without knowledge, And he sins who hastens with his feet.

Knowledge is to be cherished
Proverbs 8:10 Receive my instruction, and not silver, And knowledge rather than choice gold.

Knowledge is neccessary for understanding God.
Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
Jeremiah 4:22 For My people are foolish, They have not known Me. They are silly children, And they have no understanding. They are wise to do evil, But to do good they have no knowledge.”

Knowledge is stored up by the wise
Proverbs 10:14 Wise people store up knowledge, But the mouth of the foolish is near destruction.
Proverbs 15:14
The heart of him who has understanding seeks knowledge, But the mouth of fools feeds on foolishness.

Knowledge is neccessary for prudence
Proverbs 13:16 Every prudent man acts with knowledge, But a fool lays open his folly.

Knowledge may be obtained by the understanding man
Proverbs 14:6 A scoffer seeks wisdom and does not find it,But knowledge is easy to him who understands.

A rejection of knowledge leads to sin
Proverbs 19:27 Cease listening to instruction, my son, And you will stray from the words of knowledge.

A zeal for God without knowledge brings destruction
Romans 10:2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.

Knowledge is commended by Paul
Romans 15:14 Now I myself am confident concerning you, my brethren, that you also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
2 Corinthians 8:7 But as you abound in everything—in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in all diligence, and in your love for us—see that you abound in this grace also.

A lack of knowledge is shameful
1 Corinthians 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and do not sin; for some do not have the knowledge of God. I speak this to your shame.

Knowledge fosters love
Philippians 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment.

Paul prayed for his loved ones to have knowledge
Colossians 1:10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God.

Knowledge is neccessary for men to obey God's command for them to instruct their families
Deuteronomy 6:6 And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.
1 Corinthians 14:35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.


In an earlier post, you likened me to "those of the religious establishment Jesus spent a lot of his time rebuking -- those with a head full of knowledge and a heart full of disobedience." How do you know my heart? How have I displayed a tendency toward disobedience here? You further disparaged those who seek knowledge with "It has simply been my personal experience (both in my life and many, many others) that those who are focused on head knowledge most often look down on those who they feel are not focused on such things." The knowledge that I choose to focus on is determined by the infallible rule of God's word; not the un-infallible rule of personal experience. If that makes me all those mean and nasty things, I can only say--So be it.

 

What do you mean by follow? Do you mean listen too? Be infuenced by? Find value in their sayings?

I find it ironic that anyone who believe this would even bother stating their own opinions. Why should we not 'follow' Spurgeon words but 'follow' yours?

 

that it is done in spirit and truth

that it is done faithfully

that it is fulfilling God's purposes for the church

Your answers? </font>[/QUOTE]Books could be written (and many have been) attempting to answer these questions. I don't claim to have all the answers (yet another reason that I must seek to aquire more knowledge).

My point is that a ministry must be focused on understanding and applying what the Bible has to say about these topics; not merely focused on meeting felts needs. God knows better than we do the cure for spiritual ailments. It doesn't require a lot of knowledge to tend to spiritual 'boo-boos.' Tending to real needs, however, requires skill, precision, understanding-- and knowledge.

 

I came to know that Arminianism was wrong by a straight reading of scripture. And it was by a straight reading of scripture that I saw that the "Make a decision for Jesus and you're eternally saved" idea was chock-full of holes.

I'll admit that I had some help getting my theology straight. But that's nothing to be ashamed of, after all, that's what faithful teachers are for.

 

Actually eternal life is found throughout the Bible, and so is God's grace. Any doctrine adding or taking away from that is "chock full of holes".

I would look for new teachers, because if you do not believe the Bible teaches that believers are "eternally saved" you hardly have your theology right.

 

So explain, exactly, how one "becomes" a reformer? It can't be based solely on God's Word. I have yet to meet a single person who has become a calvinist by straight reading of the Bible. It has always followed the reading of someone like Macarthur, Spurgeon, Pink, etc. The fact of the matter is, noone is saved thinking they have been irresistably drawn because they are the elect, and the "world" is only a select group. </font>[/QUOTE]I came to a biblical understanding of God's sovereignty in salvation by reading the Scriptures and taking them for what they say literally.

 

webdog,

Spurgeon is know historically as the "Prince of Preachers" because of how God wonderfuly used his pulpit ministry. Why do you have such a problem with the godly pastors, missionaries, theologians etc. that God has also given us for our benefit?

I don't think you would find a person on this board who elevates men above Scripture. In fact you would find the opposite. Everyone would evalute the men through the lens of Scripture.

I don't agree with everything Spurgeon, Edwards, Calvin, etc. said, I think that some of it is biblically inaccurate, but I do know that I can learn an awful lot from those men who have gone before me and God blessed in wonderful ways.

This ridiculous "you are a bunch of man followers" argument is arrogant, not to mention a straw man.

Most of what is debated here by those of us who are Calvinists is done from the Scriptures.

 

I will take your answer as a "no" to the original question ... you cannot point to a specific passage where Jesus emphasizes head knowledge over practical living.

Thank you for the list. It is a good one. It is irrelevant to the discussion but it is still a good list. [/QUOTE]

A couple of thoughts and I'm done with this one; you can have the last word.

You're first point is correct; that is what I said and I'm willing to stick with it. It's so obviously true, I really can't see how it can be disputed.

On your second point, how could scripture ever be irrelevant? Where does Jesus ever SEPERATE knowledge from practical living?

That knowledge is BOUND UP WITH practical living should be obvious from the verses I gave. So what if Jesus didn't stand up on the Mount and recite the entire book of Proverbs; does that make them irrelevant?

ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God. Jesus is God. We don't just take the parts that "Jesus said" do we? Why the need for confusion here?