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You may be getting a free Quran on your doorstep

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by LadyEagle, May 19, 2008.

  1. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    Wrong on a number of counts:

    1. With radical Islam attacking the US, it is prudent to understand the mind of those who would do us harm.
    2. In sharing the gospel with Muslims, it is helpful to gain an understanding of their view of God. Just as you would be more effective in sharing with Mormons by knowing what is in the Book of Mormon.
    3. A huge percentage of this small planet is populated by followers of Muhammad. If we are to get along in this world, it helps if we study their culture, which includes their religion and sacred writings.
    4. Ignorance is not bliss.

    Those are just four reasons. There are more.
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    However scripture says otherwise. Your philosophy is not found in scripture.
     
  3. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==You go into a Muslim country or area and try to witness to them without knowing anything about Islam and see what happens. I am not saying the average Christian needs to read the Quran to learn what Islam teaches/believes. I am not even saying that missionaries/evangelists who are going into Islamic areas need to read the Quran. There are books by great Christian men (apologists) that will give those people the information they need to know about witnessing to Muslims. What I am saying is that some Christians have to study those things so that they can help those who are going to preach/witness to Muslims. The idea that we can remain totally ignorant of their beliefs/teachings and think that we can effectively witness to them is overly optimistic indeed.

    Btw, you have proven nothing with Scripture other than you know how to take a verse out of context to prove your point. The verse you quoted says nothing about apologetics or things like that. It is talking about people being mislead by false teachers within the church.
     
  4. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles New Member

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    No, your narrow interpretation of scripture says otherwise. You are guilty of overlaying your own views onto the Bible and giving your own opinion the status of holy writ.
     
  5. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    I have shown, from Scripture, that your assertion is wrong.
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    NO you made an incorrect claim of what Paul did. No where in scripture does it command us to study false religions. That man made philosophy is a lie straight from the pit of hell.
     
  7. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Scripture and the gospel is narrow yes. As far as my guilt of anything I stand before God with a clear conscience .
     
  8. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    I have refuted your claims and will continue to do so here. First I am not suggesting that Christians should study the Quran. Second nobody here has said that Christians are commanded to study false religions. Third I have made the point that if we don't know what Muslims believe we cannot witness to them. Why? Because what they believe will cause them to ignore the gospel. Fourth I showed, clearly from Scripture, that Paul knew the teachings of the false teachers. He was not ignorant of their teachings which means he had at least listened to what they were saying (Acts 17:28). This alone refutes your claims.

    If you don't know what Muslims believe you will not be able to effectively witness to them. Why? Because what they believe directly contradicts Scripture and its teachings about Jesus. So unless you know what they believe, and how to counter their arguments from Scripture, you are going to accomplish nothing. The same is true with Jehavoh's Witnesses, Mormons, Catholics, and Seventh Day Adventists. To witness to them, you have to know something about where they are coming from (what they believe). That way you can deal with their beliefs in an effective manner.
     
  9. dan e.

    dan e. New Member

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    I find this add-on to arguments to be quite humorous. It doesn't help the argument.

    Let me show you how....to use your own tactic: show me where in the Bible that studying other religions is a lie that is literally, straight from the actual pit in the literal place called hell.

    Where's your verse? (pretty obnoxious method, eh?)
     
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You have proved nothing. The verse you pose refutes nothing. Nothing there suggests we should learn of false religions. The rest of what you have said here is is man made philosophy. Scripture never says we have to know about false religions to witness to them.

    What scripture does indicate is to first know the truth. When they, in talking to them, present a lie then you will know at that moment what the truth is and you can then present it to them. The idea that we should pick up a Koran that is left on our door step and study it is dangerous and not of God.

    We are to avoid those who teach false doctrines and not give them a hearing. That is scripture, that is God's word.
     
  11. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    I will have to agree with that. Scripture doesn't tell us anything accessible to us is from the "pit of hell." To think so is to assume there is contact between here and hell, which is extrabiblical mythology. And used as a figure of speech it is cursing-- referring to hell and damnation tacked on to one's statement, assuming that gives it strength... what he said is the same thing as "That's a lie, G__ d___ it!" Ain't we clever sometimes in our choices of euphemisms?
     
  12. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    I just hope they don't go into people's trash cans looking for the ones that get tossed in the garbage. Some of those muslims are awful picky about what happens to their little green book of lies. I've heard some nasty tales......
     
  13. windcatcher

    windcatcher New Member

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    Dare I suggest that with too much knowledge we walk and witness in the flesh.

    A thorough familiarity and knowledge of the Bible will help one pick out the counterfit beliefs: Reliance on the Spirit of God to lead when witnessing will speak to the lost, their heart, their need, their questions, far better than so much familiarity with their doctrine.

    If a quoran is left on my doorstep, I don't plan on tossing it....but I don't plan on studying it either: I may get out Josh Mc Dowell or another apologetic, and then compare and highlight the koran and abreviate scripture answers....or its own contridictions in the margins. However, like my Bible, I'm sure there are probably several translations of the koran..... some more or less accurate than others to the original language/meaning. This means acceptance of their book in my tongue may be deceptive as to the accuracy of its teachings.

    I think God leads each person to different missions: Some require an intense study of the enemy and his devices, and some callings don't require knowledge at all. Although the apostle Paul was already a learned/studied man, I do not think he involved himself in a continuance of study of the pagan ideas. He was already aware and let his knowledge be of benefit: He was observant of local culture and quickly picked up on the rational thought which was behind the temple to the unknown god. His focus and the focus of Peter and the other disciples was always Jesus and him crucified, dead and bodily risen to life, and the walk of the believer in obediance to God's will.
     
  14. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Correct.

    The Jesus Film Ministry does not find it necessary to study the Koran. They just present the Jesus Film and thousands, of Muslims have accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, hungry for the Truth of the Gospel as simply presented in the Film in their own languages in their own countries.

    http://www.jesusfilm.org
     
  15. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    God did not command Jonah to study the Ninevites. He gave a message of repentance, with a promise of certain doom if they ignored him.
     
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Satan is not fighting churches; he is joining them. He does more harm by sowing tares than by pulling up wheat. He accomplishes more by imitation than by outright opposition. ~Vance Havner
     
  17. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==That is not a reply, just an assertion. Can you reply to the facts I have presented or are you just going to keep restating your position?

    Romans 16:17-19 is talking about false teachers in the church, professing Christian teachers who turn away from the church and try to lead others away as well. That verse does not deal with the necessity of knowing the people you are witnessing to.

    In Acts 17:28, Paul quotes some of the false religion's poets. That means he is familiar with them. Paul would not be opposed to certain teachers in the church learning about the false religion of Islam in order to help Christians refute the false teachings of Islam and witness to the Muslims.

    Of course, if you wish to witness to Muslims without knowing what they believe you are free to do so. However if you run into a knowledgable Muslim you are going to be in trouble. He is going to throw arguments at you that I doubt you can answer. He is going to say things about Jesus, the Scriptures, Mohammad, and theology, that are false. However if you don't know where that Muslim is coming from you are not going to be able to effectively answer nor are you going to be able to provide a defense or witness to that person. All you will do is end up doing is going in circles with him asserting one thing and you another.

    By the way, and be truthful, how many knowledgable Muslims do you know or have known?

    ==If you don't know what they believe, how can you know how to effectively answer their arguments? Quoting Scripture to these people will not work. They don't believe the New Testament so quoting it to them is not going to work. You have to go further back and work forward as Peter, Paul, and others did in the book of Acts when talking to Jews who did not accept Christ as Messiah.

    Rev. Mitchell, I have no doubt that your motives are good. However I suspect you are the kind of guy who gets into debates with Muslims (etc) only to end up running around chasing every rabbit they let loose. You can sit there and argue all you want that you don't have to know anything about Islam to witness to Muslims. You can claim that I am just using "man made philosophy" all you want. However, at the end of the day, what I am saying is supported by Scripture and by experience. I don't spend a lot of time witnessing to Muslims, mainly because there are few in this area. However in my last job I worked with a large number of Muslims. Not only that, I have studied Christian authors who have studied what Muslims believe, and as a Western Civilization instructor I have read secular historians as well. Therefore I know their arguments, I know what they say and what they believe. I also know what the Scriptures, the Word of God says, and I know why I believe it. Not only that, I can show someone why I believe it. I can give an answer when asked by a Muslim, Catholic, or Mormon (etc) why I believe what I believe and why I believe/know they are wrong. I can sit down with a Muslim and talk with them on their level and refute their arguments in a meaningful way. That is not just true of me, that is true of many Christians who believe it is important to witness to everyone and that it is important to know what we are doing and who we are dealing with before preaching to them words that they are going to understand differently then what we mean.

    ==You have just proven my point. We should respond to them with the truth, but we should make sure we understand what they are saying. If you just reply with a verse from the New Testament all you are going to end up doing is going in circles because they are going to reject it. You have to go back to their view of the New Testament, their view of Mohammad (etc), and work forward to the New Testament. Otherwise they are just going to deny everything you say and you are going to end up going in circles. Paul, Peter, and others knew the people they were talking to. They knew what the Jewish people believed and why they believed it. Therefore the Apostles started with what they could agree on moved forward. They did not just quote the New Testament (ie...their writings). Examples of this pattern are all through the book of Acts (ex: chpt 7).

    ==I don't think the average Christian should do that. However there are Christian theologians and apologists who do. Why? So they can better refute the ideas and teachings of Islam.

    ==So, Paul was wrong in Acts 17:16-31?
     
    #37 Martin, May 20, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 20, 2008
  18. Martin

    Martin Active Member

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    ==Have they really accepted Christ as their Lord, or have they just prayed a prayer? While not true in the case of Muslims, some eastern people who have seen the film and prayed the prayer have just added Jesus on to their polytheistic way of thinking. Is that Biblical conversion? Of course not. As for the Muslims, how many of them understand that Jesus is God and not just a great prophet? I am sure many Muslims have been saved through the work of missionaries using the Jesus film. However there is the risk that the language the missionary is using and the language his/her "converts" are using are very different. O, and don't try to tell me that is not a problem. I have heard from and read many missionaries/preachers who have had such problems. Knowing what a person or persons believes and how they think helps when witnessing to them. We come from a very different culture and mindset then they do. That opens the door for all sorts of problems.
     
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Martin we can go back and forth repeating the same thing with different words. But the reason men turn to philosophies such as this is they have no reliance on the power of God's word or the work of the Holy Spirit. You read to much in to one event in the ministry of Paul. Paul himself said in 1 Cor that he came preaching and knowing nothing but Christ and him crucified. I don't' get run in circles in debates with moslems or anyone else because I stick to the gospel bathed in prayer and give it to the Holy Ghost to finish it.
     
  20. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, he used their own philosophy to reason with them. There is no reason for us not to do the same. Or was Paul wrong to do so?
     
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