You may know (absolutely) ye have eternal life

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by steaver, Sep 18, 2008.

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  1. steaver

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    1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

    "know" in this verse is from the Greek "eido" which is used only in certain past tenses.

    Is John teaching Christians how they can know with absoluteness they have been (past tense) given eternal life? Meaning at some point in their life past tense they have received eternal life?

    If so, and I believe it is so, then this life being declared eternal can never not be eternal life or it would not have ever been called eternal! Correct?

    Once one has crossed over from death unto life (eternal life) then that is it, done deal, correct?

    :jesus:
     
  2. Brother Bob

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    Seems to me that if one knows, he would not have to ask. Just my opinion though.

    John, is also the same one who said he that saith he knows God and keeps not His Commandments, is a liar.

    I think John is also the one who said that "he that is born of God, cannot sin". Just my opinion though.

    BBob,
     
  3. Whowillgo

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    I agree John is showing eternal to be eternal. Two questions I would ask those that believe it can be lost is this. And I do ask this sincerely.
    1. What sin would cause loss of salvation or is it any sin ?
    2. If a person looses it how do they regain it since Christ entered the Holy place
    (1) time ? Please no silly attacks, serious question.
    Heb 7:27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
    Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
    Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
     
  4. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: No, not according to Scripture. It is not over till its over, and it is not over until we stand before God in judgment. We have indeed crossed over from death to eternal life, “IF” we hold fast our profession until the end. Our walk is one by faith, and faith an absolute knowledge are not synonymous. Heb 3:6 “But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. “

    “If” is a small word that carries a big stick. Eternal is the promise, and holding fast in obedience until the end the condition of finalizing our hope and inheritance.
     
  5. DHK

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    John 5:24 says what it says. It is unconditional. There are no "ifs" involved. That is your interpolation of other Scriptures taken out of their contexts and forced into this verse. It doesn't work that way. This is a promise that stands on its own merit. It is a timeless truth, just as John 14:6 is a timeless truth. It stands on its own merit:

    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Both Scriptures stand on their own. The don't need corroboration from any other part of the Bible.
    Either Christ is the way or He isn't. If he isn't he is the biggest fraud and liar that ever lived. His promises are true. They stand alone.
     
  6. steaver

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    You say eternal life is a "promise", as if the Christian does not yet have it. John said it was a past event for the Christian, "ye may know ye have eternal life", passing from death unto life. Now you say it could be taken away, this cannot be so, eternal does not allow for an end. Thus the word "eternal".

    Can God cease to exist? No, Why? Because God is eternal. Eternal means without end.

    HP, what is the definition of eternal? John says ye have it!
     
  7. steaver

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    Amen! Praise Him!

    :jesus:
     
  8. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Yes he does, and you do….. “IF”……..Heb 3:6 “But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. “
     
  9. DHK

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    You miss the context of the Book of Hebrews, who it was written to, its purpose, etc., and randomly pull a verse out of its context.

    John 5:24 stands on its own, one of the "Verily, verily, I say unto you" statements of Christ, a truth that needs no repeating.
    It contains no "ifs". Its promise is unconditional.
    Eternal means eternal. If eternal stopped at anytime it would not be eternal, and Christ would be lying.
     
  10. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: If God promised never to remember sins that were under the blood, yet brought them up in order to chastise a believer, would He be a liar?
     
    #10 Heavenly Pilgrim, Sep 18, 2008
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  11. DHK

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    To accuse God of lying is blasphemy.
    The question itself needs no answer.
    The Bible is clear.
    God never brings our sins up again. He puts them under the blood and never remembers them again; they are buried in the depths of the deepest sea. And thus the believer is clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, never in danger of losing his salvation.
     
  12. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Eternal life is a promise to the believer. When a believer stops following in obedience he forfeits the promise.

    What ever happened to God being Sovereign? Why cannot a Sovereign God grant, as Scripture clearly teaches, a conditional promise of eternal life? What stops God??... your presupposition of OSAS? Who are you to tell God He cannot withhold whatsoever He wills? If God grants to man a promise of eternal life, the same Sovereign God can withhold it if He so desires. Your presupposition does not hinder God from doing as His Word says He will if one does not hold fast to the end in obedience. Re 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

    You take one verse that is stated without the conditions found in numerous other places, and tell us it is a stand alone verse. Why is your favorite proof text a stand alone verse yet the conditional promise stated in the verse I mentioned, and many more like it are not? Who said the passage you site is a stand alone verse?
     
  13. DHK

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    That statement is about as ridiculous as saying that if I stop obeying my father, he will change my genetic make-up. I am born with my parents genes. There is nothing that I can do to change that fact.

    Jesus said you must be born again. When I trusted Christ I was born into his family. Once born into God's family I cannot be unborn. There is no way that the "genetic make-up" can be changed. It is once for all. Once born into God's family; always a child of God. One cannot be "unborn." There is no such thing.
     
  14. Amy.G

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    Scripture please.




    God is sovereign. The condition of eternal life is faith in Christ as Savior and Lord. After that, you are in His family, you are a son, a child of God.

    Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."
    Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,


    But then His promises would be worthless. You can't revoke a promise, or it wouldn't be a promise to begin with.



    This is referring to the church of Ephesus, not the individual believer.




    Because it is clear cut and cannot have more than one meaning.
     
    #14 Amy.G, Sep 18, 2008
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  15. Whowillgo

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    HP, I would then ask again how do you regain salvation once you lose it?
     
  16. steaver

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    HP, stay on the OP :thumbs:

    Your answer to the OP has been to point to other scriptures. This is ok as long as the other scriptures do not contradict the OP scripture.

    Here is your dilemma. John states that eternal life "has been" granted. Therefore the "IF" part has been satisfied which is "born again". Now John says you "have" eternal life. Eternal cannot end!! If you believe it can, you will have to give us another alternative definition for "eternal".

    Here are the OP points once again; 1) "know ye have" points to a past experience. 2) that past experience was having received "eternal life". 3) "eternal" cannot end!

    You want to add to this equasion the truth of God's "promise". This is good as long as you put God's promise into proper context. The "promise" is to give "eternal life". This promise God fulfills at regeneration, John declares as much.

    The only way you can escape these truths of John's words is to make eternal life something that is not given until a future judgment. This you cannot justify doing when John declares it is a "past" event.
     
    #16 steaver, Sep 19, 2008
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  17. Brother Bob

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    Heb. 6:
    4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
     
  18. Agnus_Dei

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    Steaver, I've added my own empahasis to the above verse. I ask you, what are the, these things, that St. John is referring to?

    In XC
    -
     
    #18 Agnus_Dei, Sep 19, 2008
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  19. Brother Bob

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    1Jo 5:3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

    This is what John was speaking of in order to know anything. IMO

    BBob,
     
    #19 Brother Bob, Sep 19, 2008
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  20. Agnus_Dei

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    inappropriate remarks deleted.
     
    #20 Agnus_Dei, Sep 19, 2008
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