You, Your Children and Vaccinations?

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by righteousdude2, Sep 11, 2013.

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Do You Support Vaccinations for Adults and Children?

  1. Yes...

    18 vote(s)
    81.8%
  2. No....

    3 vote(s)
    13.6%
  3. No opinion...

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Please see my comments on vaccinations!

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
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  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    I have to ask this, and I feel it is important enough to hopefully get a good healthy [no pun intended] debate and response on the attached poll!

    What is your view of vaccinations [both childhood and adult]??? I ask this, because on another forum, the topic came up and a person said that vaccinations were the work of the devil! A little strong if you ask me! :type:
     
  2. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    I believe God gives knowledge to mankind in the field of medicine for the purpose of having a healthy life. In primitive times before modern day medicine tribes of people had their medicine doctors that would go out and gather in different plants and roots to make medicine.
     
  3. annsni

    annsni
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    I thank God for vaccines because they have saved many lives. I do, however, feel that the process to get vaccines to market is broken and we've seen many vaccines come through that were not as good as they thought or caused side effects that were not expected.

    I vaccinated my kids - but on my own schedule. They would have one or two vaccines at the same time and one in each leg so I knew if there was a reaction, where it came from. I did not do chicken pox until they were older and I don't do the HPV until it is absolutely necessary since my kids are smart and not sexually active. It will be their choice when the time comes whether or not to get the vaccine which I think is fantastic - once it is around longer and studied more.

    My oldest daughter doesn't have a spleen anymore thanks to her pancreatic tumor 2 years ago and so she has to have the flu shot yearly as well as the pneumonia shot every 5 years. She also has to be very careful with infection. My thoughts on the flu shot is that it's not 100% effective but even if it is just 50% effective, that's pretty good and the flu is a lousy virus to get. So I get my college students to get it (highly exposed in college and they can't miss school for 10 days), I get it (if mama is down sick, the whole family crumbles) and my husband should get it due to his severe asthma but he doesn't. I'll keep trying though!! But my two younger homeschooled kids don't get it. They are healthy and not highly exposed.

    So, I think vaccines are a fantastic medical development but I use them carefully and thoughtfully.
     
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Another "non-Baptist" topic so moving it.

    BTW, I am 100% opposed to vaccinations as is my wife (the doctor) and my family. I am fighting with the State Dept for travel in Africa since I will not be poisoned by such a shot and they are looking at alternatives for a "conscientious objector" like myself.
     
  5. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    Absolutely in favour of vaccinations for childhood illnesses such as measles, if nothing else for stories like this
     
  6. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
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    Bob you're an intelligent man and obviously so is your wife, and I'm not a doctor so I don't speak with expertise but nonetheless ...

    ... that phrase I quoted is a ridiculous comment! Study after study have failed to find or corroborate a link between thimerosal, for example, in vaccines or links to vaccines in general and autism. It is now to the point that even the most zealous of zealots are having a hard time defending the claim that mercury in vaccines causes autism, which was one of the major specters of a "boogieman" raised early after the turn of the millenium. Predictably the campaign against vaccines has fallen back on the old “toxins” myth, which has been equally and effectively debunked.

    I'm sure you can provide all sorts of supposedly solid reasons why you believe vaccines are "poison" and I know there is a lot of stuff on the Internet right now that purport to back up those "facts." Those studies simply bear out the fact there is no real proof of the legitimacy of those claims, despite the plethora of bloggers and "reporters" who want to scare the bejeezus out of people for the sheer joy of leaping over a cliff after a conclusion. Parents believing vaccines are "poison" as a result of this completely irresponsible "reporting" by bloggers and sensationalist "news" media that choose to believe anything they read is why we have an alarming rise in measles, mumps whooping cough and other childhood diseases that were all be eradicated in my youth -- by vaccines!! Sorry to take you to task, and please forgive me, with apologies.
     
    #6 thisnumbersdisconnected, Sep 12, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2013
  7. annsni

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    Actually, most vaccines can be gotten without thimerosal. Even the flu shot only has thimerosal in the multi dose vials but if you get the one that is individually packaged already in the syringe, there is no thimerosal at all. You can also get all vaccines as individual components so that you don't have to get a combination vaccine if that worries you. :)
     
  8. preachinjesus

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    100% in favor of vaccines...because without them polio would still be a concern.

    Hundreds of other examples abound.
     
  9. annsni

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    Heck, how about smallpox???
     
  10. JonC

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    Dr. Bob,


    Are you a “conscientious objector” to vaccinations on religious grounds or for medical reasons?



    The reason I ask is that the thread seems concerned with the view that vaccinations were the “work of the devil.” I know many who object because they don’t trust the vaccine or believe it to be dangerous – but I am not familiar with religious grounds for rejecting vaccinations.
     
  11. righteousdude2

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    Dr. Bob....I Disagree with Moving This!!!

    ...I love you in the Lord! But, I disagree with you on this not being a Baptist topic. It is directly related to what we, as believers feel about vaccinations, and how they are, or are not beneficial.

    I think you showed some bias when moving this, but, as a moderator, that is your opinion and right! Still, this was not, and is not a "current event!" It is a topic that I was desiring to get views and opinions on, from other Baptists, as I was challenged by a sister that vaccinations were the devil's hadniwork, and I wanted to see if that view is universal, or an abberation!!

    Apparently you and your wife have strong feelings about this topic, too, and I appreciate your feedback! BTW - Could you please clear up what your wife is a doctor of...and what it was that led her to medical opinion?

    Thanks, and love in Jesus!

    Pastor Paul :thumbs:
     
  12. Bro. James

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    In as much as the FDA has difficulty deciding what is safe and healthy, e.g.(Aspartame), one might conclude that they know not what they do. Bureaucratic systems seldom get it right before it is field tested to work out the bugs. Remember swine flu vaccine, circa 1976? More than normal(?) amounts of deaths occurred before the govt. decided it was unsafe. This was going to be a mandatory event for the whole population. See: The Swine Flu Fiasco, www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2009. This whole website is pertinent to this discussion.

    There is so much money involved in pharmacy/prescription writing that it has been corrupted for several generations. Between the legal and illegal drugs in this country most of us are addicted to something. This is why nationwide healthcare does not work--no one can afford it, even the govt.(already trillions of $ in red ink.)

    Many have turned back to old natural processes: real food, clean water/air, and exercise. Less stress helps. Many of us are trying to be first on a treadmill to oblivion.

    Read: The Sermon on the Mount, daily.

    Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

    Bro. James
     
    #12 Bro. James, Sep 13, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 13, 2013
  13. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
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    Actually, the opening statement on their "About" page pretty much disqualifies them as a "neutral party" and is more of the same biased opinion that muddles the discussion.

    The International Medical Council on Vaccination is an association of medical doctors, registered nurses and other qualified medical professionals whose purpose is to counter the messages asserted by pharmaceutical companies, the government and medical agencies that vaccines are safe, effective and harmless. - http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/about/#sthash.C4iFh6vv.dpuf

    They establish their bias quite effectively with their "Principles and Findings" statement right below that. I've bolded and italicized some of their more absurd and ridiculous statements:

    • We are profoundly critical of the practice of vaccination. Vaccination is an unacceptable risk to every member of society, regardless of age.
    • As medical professionals, Council members have observed first-hand the health of vaccinated vs. the unvaccinated. We find the latter group to be robust, healthy and drug-free compared to the former group.
    • We have reviewed published studies in support of vaccines and have found them wanting in both substance and science.
    • We have brought out into the open hundreds of peer-reviewed, published medical articles that document the damage and the diseases caused by vaccines.
    • We find the premise of herd immunity to be a faulty theory.
    • We encourage intelligent debate about vaccination.
    • We expect individuals to take responsibility for their health and the health of their children by investigating the problems due to vaccination prior to subjecting their children, or themselves, to this medical procedure.
    • We believe that refusing vaccination is a personal right that should be legislatively guaranteed.

    Bullet Point #1: Despite this statement, I could find nothing on the website that would establish this as a factual statement. Anecdotal evidence is not proof.

    Bullet Point #2: This is nothing more than an outright lie. Perhaps they should check the third-world countries and try to explain the major health issues there because vaccinations are not available.

    Bullet Point #3: Again a statement made here that cannot be supported by evidentiary materials elsewhere on the website.

    Bullet Point #4: And yet they offer no proof of these "documents" other than the aforementioned anecdotal evidence. Any medical procedure, or procedure of any type in any industry, for that matter, can be found to have exhibited exceptional occurrences that might, if taken out of context, indicate a danger that in reality is all but non-existent.

    Bullet Point #5: This is nothing short of an unprofessional and irresponsible claim, ignoring the mountains of evidence that reducing or eliminating infection in a population of any size eliminates the infection's spread, because the vaccinations provided have bolstered the individuals' immune systems so as to prevent an infection from taking hold. Smallpox is the greatest example there is, having all but been eradicated worldwide, and would have been completely eliminated if not for the refusal of some to be inoculated, or the unavailability of the vaccine where small pockets of infection had continued to occur outside the purview of the world community.

    Bullet Point #6: It would be a great statement if not for the fact that their "evidence" is counter to the intelligent digestion of the facts.

    I could have highlighted the last two bullet points as well, because what they really believe is that vaccinations should be outlawed, not left up to responsible adults. They also fail to grasp the reality that vaccinations are already a personal right to refuse if anyone wants to do so.

    There are indeed corrupt doctors and pharmaceutical sales persons who "work the system," and I'm aware that pharmaceutical companies are not the most reputable of big businesses. But to indict the entire industry based on the actions of a relative few is a gross over-reaction.

    And whose fault is that? You're probably going to blame the pharmaceutical companies and the doctors, but addiction is the result of individual bad choices. No one can blame their drug, alcohol, gambling or other abuse on anyone but themselves. And as a licensed addictions counselor, I can assure you of that truth.

    While I agree that it doesn't work, it isn't because of the addictions problem, or the alleged corrupt pharmaceutical/doctor relationship.

    Most doctors never abandoned those "old natural processes" in the first place. There is no such thing as a "magic pill" and the vast majority of doctors will be the first to tell you that. Medicine, and specifically vaccinations, are not the problem. Good health comes from a well-balanced approach of exercise, personal responsibility in food selection, taking the treatments and precautions your personal physician recommends, and just plain being smart.
     
  14. Gina B

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    I did not want to do vaccines with my firstborn, at least not until I'd done more research, but was told my choices in that state were as follows:

    1. Vaccinate
    2. Not walk out the door with my baby

    I vaccinated.

    My one daughter became quite ill with the measles vaccine. The medical staff insisted she didn't have measles, just a "measles rash." I personally believe she never quite recovered from that healthy "vaccine."

    I moved, and chose vaccines that correlated to exposures they would have from the specific country they were being exposed to. (trying not to get into too much detail here)

    Then...ah, Oklahoma and public school. They couldn't attend without all the proper vaccines. I gave them the choice, they took them. I also have now given them the choice to take something called "Vaccistat" for detox from them. None of them have taken me up on it yet, but I've encouraged them to read up on it. They're old enough now that it's their choice and decision.

    So they're all smart and wise now reading the medical stuff and agreeing with vaccines and don't need no detox, lol, but what's funny about this, when they get sick, they always reject medicine and come to their ultra smart mom for natural help to feel better, so my plan is to wait patiently until they come to me with a cold or flu, then bring up the detox thing again. :thumbs:

    I think that yes, they've done a lot of good, but I'd just rather not play Russian roulette with children. Will this one suffer permanent damage? Will this one get autism? Will this one be sensitive to the ingredients?

    And the flu shot - argh! I took one once, against my better judgment. Never again. I was down for a month. I didn't even feel the injection, but two days later, my whole arm and shoulder felt sooo heavy and I felt worse each day. No fever, but felt like I was burning up, everything felt kind of like a dream, like I was watching from another world. I'll take the flu any day. I don't know what's in that stuff, but my body was extremely unhappy with it.
     
  15. go2church

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    Odd indeed
     
  16. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
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    I had flu shot problems, and my digs have vaccine problems, too!

    ....well at least the first four times I had the shot, I became extremely ill with a severe URI each year.

    Then I quit the shot for maybe five years, and decided to take it again after my hypertensive crisis in 2009. I have not had any more bouts of the flu, and noticed that for four years running, I have been flu free!

    Possibly, it was the stuff they used those first four years? P my body developed some "diplomatic immunity" during my four-year break? Even so, whatever the reason....I no longer have a problem, and in fact, have gone four years without the dreaded yearly URI [something I had been getting since I was diagnosed with spinal meningitis while a recruit at Fort Ord in 1967.

    I recovered from the SM, but have had chronic URI's up until 2009, and lived on antibiotics for months each year!

    So, where do I stand on vaccinations? I believe there are RISKS with any medical procedure, and believe me injecting the human body with dead viruses is a procedure...so parents and adults need to be well versed in making the right decision for them and their loved ones!

    Then we have dog vaccinations. My last two dogs have had deadly reactions to the combinations the vets give to most dogs, but my last two kiddos have had to have specially made vaccines, and they were both given Benedryl injections prior to the vaccination being given to avoid a reaction!

    We need the shots by law, for a license, but each year I fear the possibilities to them!

    Vaccines are not for everyone, that has already y been proven! Still, having them is a lot better than the alternatives of contacting and coming down with the real culprit, the disease those vaccines are supposed to help the body fight off!

    Still, I don't see vaccines as a work of the devil or a government conspiracy to help greedy pharmaceuticals companies get rich off us!
     
  17. JonC

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    I’ve never had any issues with the flu shot (although I would opt out if given that option). It’s a hard call though. Should you require parents to vaccinate their children against their wishes? At first I’d say no, that’s absurd. But then again, should individuals be permitted that choice if it could possibly endanger the whole? I’d again say no.

    Vaccines have been a great medical advancement – but who knows when we’ll vaccinate our children only to find negative effects down the road. (Didn’t work out too well for Will Smith in I am Legend).

    But I thought the initial post was the result of religious objections to objections. I do understand the medical concerns (although I am more concerned with the medical benefits). What are the religious objections?
     
  18. Dr. Bob

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    "Baptist only" topics are one for Baptists, dealing with issues of Baptists and not the general public. Remember more than 1/3 of the Baptist Board are non-Baptists.

    This topic is interesting but cannot be stretched to "Baptist only". Sorry.
     
  19. saturneptune

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    100% for vaccines. I have had numerous ones in the military because of overseas duty. The only purpose was to protect my health. I had another large round of them with the anthrax attacks on the Postal Service. Again, the purpose was to save lives.
     
    #19 saturneptune, Sep 14, 2013
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  20. righteousdude2

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    Thanks, BUT....

    .....I thought for sure, that vaccines were only for Baptists :laugh: to protect them from the diseases of the general populace! :thumbs:
     
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