Young girls imprisoned as sex slaves

How awful!

 

Such is the law of the jungle and the nature of fallen humanity, we should be thankful for level of civilization our jueo/chrisitian society has allowed us to achieve. And try to hold on to it.

 

Actually Bunyon,

1. Our Judeo Christian society that you claim our nation was founded on allowed racist slavery within our nation for at least a century after its founding, and then allowed racist discriminatory acts for another century after slavery was done away with.

2. I remember about a year or two ago there being a thread about sexual slavery right here in the USA.

3. Don't be too proud of our Judeo Christian society. We are in no way better than everyone else when it comes to total depravity.

Joseph Botwinick

 

We are the best society that has ever existed when it comes to human rights, can you really say otherwise. Name another. The slavery thing really gets old. If you use it as a measure than it cancels itself out since it was universal in every nation and race on Earth.

 

There is that pride thing again. Another nation that I believe does pretty good on human rights is Israel. I know that is debatable, but then again, for some, so is the USA. You're right. The slavery thing did get old...but, apparently not old enough for us to do away with racist discrimination for another century afterwards and then have sex slaves in our own country. We are no better than any other nation when it comes to our total depravity. We are certainly capable of just as bad or worse. To deny that is to deny the grace of God that is taught in the Bible and the reality of history and current events, and what is even worse, is that it embraces the boasting of self righteousness because of our great works.

Joseph Botwinick

 

We are no better than Saddam Hussien's Iraq? Really Joseph?

Isreal is a pretty young nation. But who knows, perhaps they will be a great as the USA in freedom and human rights issues in the end.

Not pride, objective fact.

 

Bunyon,

What makes us better than Saddam's Iraq? Our self righteous choice or the grace of God?

I am really curious to know how much better you think we really are, contrary to the teachings of the Bible.

Joseph Botwinick

 

I don't see how you can say the the gospel does not make a differnce in a person or a nation. God has no effect on those who embrace him? Saying that one nation is not better than another is the same as saying that God has no effect. Or God's ways have no power to transform.

 

You didn't answer the question, Bunyon. What makes us better than Saddam's Iraq? Our self righteous choice or the grace of God?

Joseph Botwinick

 

"You didn't answer the question, Bunyon. What makes us better than Saddam's Iraq? Our self righteous choice or the grace of God?"------------------------------------------------------------

The grace of God never makes anyone better, not sure what you are trying to suggest here.

 

British and most Eastern European cultures are Judeo-Christian in origin.

 

So, it is our self-righteous choice?

Joseph Botwinick

 

No Gold Dragon, they are Judeo/chatholic in origian, just a small point. When we say Judeo/Christian in referance to America we are really saying Judeo/reformed. Yet I would say, western europe has seen great benefits from it'd embrace of the Gopel.

 

No, it is our choice to follow Christ. How is that self rightous? Your introduciton of terms such as "self rightous" is just an attempt on your part to steer thing into your on presuposistion.

 

Joseph, the bottom line is we have the best Human rights record in history. If you don't attribute that to Christ, who do you attribute it to?

 

Still didn't answer the question, Bunyon?

BTW, I attribute that to the grace of God amidst the reality of totally depraved, fallen sinful man.

Joseph Botwinick

 

But grace does not make one better only forgiven, if a person or nation is "better" after grace, it is because they trusted the Lord and put his principles to work in their life and nation. Grace is never a fruit, only our actions can ever be considered fruit, good or bad, and if our actions are better than saddam's, it is because we allowed God to direct us to whatever degree.

 

I believe most of the rest of the world would not make this distinction in reference to the term "Judeo-Christian".

 

Perhaps not, but maybe that is why the USA has the best, by far, record on freedom and human rights than any other "empire" that has ever existied. But most of the rest of the world make not distinction between the reformed church and the medievel Holy Roman Empire of crusade fame anyway.