Your take on Mark 9:43-50

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by pinoybaptist, Jul 30, 2008.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    I attended church at a New Covenanter Reformed Theology Baptist Church (that is not the church name, just their affiliation and their theology) last Sunday, and the pastor's topic was Mark 9:43-50, which I am quoting here in full:
    Personally, my take on it is that this is speaking of gospel obedience, or practical sanctification, or whatever you want to call it. At the conclusion of his message, it seems the pastor also sees this as having to do with practical holiness.

    But he also said that "life" is eternal life, or the life that one gets in eternal salvation, heavenly life, for lack of a better term.
    And that is because he also says Jesus speaks of hell in these verses.

    What is your take on this ?

    I am asking because this seems to suggest that eternal salvation is by works, if this life is the eternal life we can get by being eternally saved.


     
  2. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    "...the words are to be understood, not literally, but figuratively; and the sense is, it is better to part with every thing here, that is detrimental to a man's doing, or enjoying, what is spiritually good, and enter into eternal life" - Dr. John Gill

    Dr. Gill put it more eloquently that I did as a new Christian. When I was asked about the giving up of this or that in order to follow Jesus my answer was, and still is, "If it is in the way, whatever it may be, of your following Jesus and going after Him, get rid of it."
     
  3. skypair

    skypair
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pinoy, here's my "take" (FWIW to you :laugh: )

    This is from the Sermon on the Mount. In that sermon, Christ was annunciating the "law" of His kingdom. More specifically, His earthly, MK but it does have application to His earthly but spiritual kingdom, the church.

    In the latter case of the church, the application, like the kingdom itself, is SPIRITUAL. If you eye offend, for instance, you are under the "law covenant" and you need to come to Jesus for sin.

    But now let's look at the PHYSICAL MK. From there, after 1000 years, the believing citizens will go into God's PHYSICAL kingdom and receive new, restored bodies. But again, the options are keep the law and pluck out the eye or fall upon the mercy of Christ. This passage "comes on" almost like the one about the RYR. He claimed under the law that he had done all the law and was thereby, saved. Conceding that to be true, Jesus told him to sell all he had (riches would soon offend just as an "offending eye" could) and follow Jesus (which in the MK will be literally possible.

    That's what I see anyway. Most people preach the Sermon on the Mount for us but since the kingdom is only spiritual now, we also look at the spiritual rather than literal application.

    skypair
     
  4. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thanks for your reply, RB and SP.
    I guess I really do not have any issue at all with getting rid of whatever is hindering us from following or serving Christ here on earth. That should be a given for anybody who professes faith in and love for, Christ, without having to go into the Lordship or no-Lordship thing.

    I guess what threw me off-track a bit is the Lord's equating total devotion to him as a way of avoiding hell, where the worm dieth not. I would like to know, pick your brains (no offense), if you will, how we could harmonize grace and works here.

    For the record, I claim no deep understanding of this Scripture, and have asked my fellow PB's on another board about this, as well.
     
  5. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here is a real Irony, Origen of Alexandria took the subject passage literally and physically yet is accused of doctrines that are to spiritualized :confused:


    -------------------------------------
    Consider Origen (c.185-c.254AD) of
    Alexandria. People who think they take
    the Bible more literally than others condemn
    Origen for saying that there is much in the
    Bible which can only be understood
    on a spiritual level.

    1 Co 2:14 (KJV1611 Edition):
    But the naturall man receiueth not the things
    of the Spirit of God
    , for they are foolishnesse
    vnto him: neither can he know them,
    because they are spiritually discerned.

    Back in his day, a person prosessing faith
    in Messiah Yeshua were trained in The Faith
    for two years before they were Baptized
    (some were martyred prior to Baptism, blowing
    the concept you have to do the Work of Baptistm
    to get saved.) Origen was a Training Mentor for
    new Converts.

    When Origen came of age, he literally took
    these verses:

    Mat 18:89 Wherefore, if thy hand or thy foote cause thee
    to offend, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better
    for thee to enter into life, halt, or maimed, then hauing
    two hands, or two feete, to be cast into euerlasting fire.
    9 And if thine eye cause thee to offende, plucke it out,
    and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter
    into life with one eye, then hauing two eyes
    to be cast into hell fire.

    See also this scripture:
    Mat 19:11-12 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition)
    But he sayd vnto them, All men cannot receiue this thing, saue they to whom it is giuen.
    12 For there are some eunuches, which were so borne of their mothers belly: and there be some eunuches, which be gelded by men: and there be some eunuches, which haue gelded them selues for the kingdome of heauen. He that is able to receiue this, let him receiue it.

    We are talking about a sacrifice here - not an offering! 'Geld' means physical castration. 'Eunuch' means a male who has been physically castrated.

    Origen had his sexual members surgically removed
    so he would be more interested in Serving
    Messiah Yeshua than chasing women.
    I really think Origen is condemned for being
    way to literal but the words used to condemn
    him say things like this passage from the Dictionary
    of Premillennial Theology
    (Kregel, 1996):

     
  6. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2002
    Messages:
    8,123
    Likes Received:
    1
    Thanks for that, Ed.
    Really enlightening info you got on Origen.
    Also, haven't read 1611 English for a looonnnggg time.:thumbs:
     
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    3,896
    Likes Received:
    0
    The context of the passage appears to be dealing with the coming persecution of Christians. (v.41-42) "For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because of your name as (followers} of Christ, truly I say to you, he will not lose his reward. (420 Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe to stumble, it would be better for him if, with a heavy millstone hung around his neck, he had been cast into the sea."


    Jesus had just compared believers to little children who accept Him. He then warns that some will be tempted to "stumble", most likely because of the coming persecution. The "hand", "foot", "eye" that causes to stumble is symbolic of persecution that causes loss for the believer, perhaps even being maimed for the cause of the gospel. To "stumble" means to turn from the gospel, and therefore reject Christ, because of the fear of persecution.

    Jesus is saying that believers must stand firm (the reference to salt) and persevere in the midst of persecution, even if their body is to be abused to the point of losing a hand, foot, or eye.

    Better to enter the kingdom maimed than to be thrown into hell whole.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #7 canadyjd, Jul 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2008
  8. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's my take: Probably not genuine.
     
  9. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    The TNIV strikes again. :laugh:
     
  10. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you own a copy of the TNIV? It's almost always spot on. :laugh:

    But seriously, we're not going to settle this matter this side of time.
     

Share This Page

Loading...