Your thoughts on Augustine?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BrianT, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. BrianT

    BrianT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi,

    I don't know if this belongs in this forum or the History forum. Anyway...

    For those of you (especially Baptists) that know something about Augustine, I am looking for opinions on his life and views. What do you think of him?

    Brian
     
  2. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    May I quote Charles Haddon Spurgeon at the outset:

    "Now, the fire-line from Pentecost seems to be one simple channel. You may take a step from Paul to Augustine, and then from AUgustine to Calvin, and then-you may keep your foot up a good while before you find another such. Augustin was the great mine out of which Calvin digged his mental wealth. The Puritans got their patterns from the same sources, the Bible and Calvin."
    pps 120-121, In SHadow of The Broad Brim, Judson Press.

    I think Spurgeon said it all.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  3. Link

    Link
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2004
    Messages:
    695
    Likes Received:
    0
    What about things like infant Baptism and healing through relics then?
     
  4. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jim1999: I think Spurgeon said it all.

    HP: Would it be fair to call Spurgeon a Calvinist?
     
  5. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    Spurgeon called himself a Calvinist quite clearly . He was as Augustian as they come -- minus the errors .
     
  6. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    HP: That sounds like the depiction of a black crow, minus the feathers.
     
  7. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let the very words of Mr. Spurgeon speak for themselves:

    "I am as firm a believer in the doctrine of grace as any man living, and a true Calvinist after the order of John Calvin himself........." C.H. Spurgeon

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  8. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    As with any of the church fathers, we must discern, what we perceive to be truth with our modern understanding, and what they understood with their level of understanding.

    If the modern man can't figure that one out, he has no right to even read a book let alone give an opinion...

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  9. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: Now there is a man that right or wrong at least knew who his father was, and was not afraid to admit it, nor get offended if it was brought to his attention. I like that in a man, or in a woman. You at least have a solid footing for discussion, unlike many I have tried to converse with that hold to a set dogma in one hand while tryng to distance themselves or deny their father and the logical ends of that belief with the other.
     
  10. nate

    nate
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    Was C.H. Spurgeon a Covenant Theologian? I have heard many say he was and some say that he wasn't. I was wondering if anyone could clear this up.
     
  11. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nate, There are not a few that would like that Mr. Spurgeon was not a true Calvinist, which includes covenant theology. I think this quote from one of his sermons clearly paints the picture:

    I do not come into this pulpit hoping that perhaps somebody will of his own free will return to Christ. My hope lies in another quarter. I hope that my Master will lay hold of some of them and say, "You are mine, and you shall be mine. I claim you for myself." My hope arises from the freeness of grace, and not from the freedom of the will.
    Charles Haddon Spurgeon


    In other sermons, Mr. Spurgeon speaks specifically about the "covenant of grace", and yet other specifics about Calvinism, including the Abrahamic Covenant.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  12. FriendofSpurgeon

    FriendofSpurgeon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    3,054
    Likes Received:
    36
    Wow --- I was expecting much more bashing, especially since Augustine was a catholic.
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Augustine made his blunders - but on some points he was ok.
     
  14. Taufgesinnter

    Taufgesinnter
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    0
    Probably the main reason for most of his errors was that he was almostly completely cut off from apostolic tradition. He spoke Latin. He could not read Greek, so he could not access the Bible of the apostolic Church, the LXX, or the NT in its original language, and could not read the Eastern fathers of Jerusalem, Antioch, etc. Thus he had no historic moorings to hold him or ancient landmarks to guide him. He relied on Jerome's problematic Latin translation of the Bible, and a mistranslated verse there gave rise to his view of original sin, which spawned the doctrines of purgatory, indulgences, the immaculate conception of Mary, and, ironically, Calvinism, all of which, in their ultimate forms, are antithetical to the teachings of the ancient Church.
     
  15. BrianT

    BrianT
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Messages:
    3,516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Can you provide more details about this? Which verse, what was the translation issue, etc.? How did this spawn those other doctrines? Thanks.
     
  16. El_Guero

    El_Guero
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,714
    Likes Received:
    0
    Augustine is the one of the most misunderstood theologians to have ever lived.

    He is also one of the best theologians.


     
  17. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    9,295
    Likes Received:
    0


    HP: And what might those points be?
     
  18. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,404
    Likes Received:
    328
    I beg your pardon , but Calvinism is not in opposition to the teachings of the early Church . And by early Church I mean from the time of the Ascension of Jesus to he death of John the beloved . All Calvinistic teachings are found most clearly in the holy Writ . Now carry on .
     
  19. El_Guero

    El_Guero
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,714
    Likes Received:
    0
    He taught rhetoric in Latin because he liked Latin better than hed liked Greek . . .

    Is the rest of your post based upon your misunderstanding of his linguistic capability?



     
  20. David Michael Harris

    David Michael Harris
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,362
    Likes Received:
    1
    Man of God.

    You can find a lot of info on the 'church fathers' here...

    http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/history/3_ch10.htm

    You will find Augustine about half way down.
     
    #20 David Michael Harris, Sep 11, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2006

Share This Page

Loading...