1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Zacharia

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by agedman, Mar 12, 2016.

  1. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Whatever Paul writes to them about the Law he writes as a 1st-century Jew, writing in the 1st-century. Yet, even so, he does not say what you seem to think. He does not tell the Gentiles among the Galatians that they had the Law as tutor. He wrote in Gal. 3:23 - 24:

    "Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith."

    Yes, there is also a law in all men's hearts, hardwired into their conscience, but the Law here in this passage is the Mosaic Law - the Law that the foolish Galatians, in their desire to be circumcised, were wanting to be under.

    Certainly. Abrahamic Covenant is not the same as Mosaic "law." But that is my point.

    Just so I understand your point - what part of the Abrahamic promise was not fulfilled?

    Effective dealing with any passage or book is to take other passages into consideration. The Bible is its own best commentary.

    Those two passages I quoted were to show that those supposed literal passages have earlier passages written in the same vein. Make them all literal, if you can. Or - if you can't - then concede the possibility that perhaps Zech. 14 might also be viewed in the same light as those earlier passages.
    Did God touch down on earth, per earlier passages? Did mountains smoke when He did? Hills melt?

    Instead of taking the Bible at face value - by definition a superficial reading - why don't you dig deeper and try to understand how the Bible communicates truth. That sounds disrespectful, which is not intended, but I am in earnest. So many Christians do not take OT language and methodology into consideration when they read the NT or, as you do in Zech, even other parts of the OT.

    The Bible is a spiritual book. Much of its language is spiritual. That entails metaphor, types, etc. It is not to be read like the New York Times.
     
  2. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    607
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In a different post you challenged me to "Deal with Zechariah". And looking at the above quote I suppose you are referring to a passage in Zech. 14. I don't have time t get all through Zech. 14, but lets chip away here and there as time permits.

    "And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples that wage war against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths." - Zech. 14:12

    Here is a good example of "newspaper eschatology". Even some modern versions help out this misreading of the text.

    This is a perfect illustration of the crucial importance of comparing Scripture with Scripture. If you read it in isolation it does look like something clearly modern. But this passage - this very word that I underlined - comes up several times earlier.

    The way it is used there helps us to understand it here. First, the idea, though not the actual word (a similar one is used) is found in Zech. 5: 1 - 4:

    "1. Again I lifted my eyes and saw, and behold, a flying scroll! 2. And he said to me, “What do you see?” I answered, “I see a flying scroll. Its length is twenty cubits, and its width ten cubits.” 3. Then he said to me, “This is the curse that goes out over the face of the whole land. For everyone who steals shall be cleaned out according to what is on one side, and everyone who swears falsely shall be cleaned out according to what is on the other side. 4. I will send it out, declares the Lord of hosts, and it shall enter the house of the thief, and the house of him who swears falsely by my name. And it shall remain in his house and consume it, both timber and stones.”"

    The following verses use the same "eyes melting in socket" word as Zech. 14:12. Ezek. 4:16 - 17:

    "Moreover, he said to me, “Son of man, behold, I will break the supply of bread in Jerusalem. They shall eat bread by weight and with anxiety, and they shall drink water by measure and in dismay. I will do this that they may lack bread and water, and look at one another in dismay, and rot away because of their punishment."

    See also Ezek. 24:23; 33:10. Lev. 26:39. The first two Ezek. passages are specifically directed to Jerusalem. All of these passages have to do with Israel's breaking of the Covenant.

    Another passage that deals with this idea of covenantal unfaithfulness, both personal
    and national, is in Numbers 5, where the woman suspected of unfaithful is made to drink the "waters of bitterness". If she proves to have been unfaithful she rots, literally.

    But, to get back to Zechariah, I believe the Numbers 5 passage is a figurative warning of a very real judgment that would overtake the Jews. We read in Revelation about the waters that became bitter, and of the judgment of the harlot - Israel.

    The rotting of the flesh in Zech. 14, the consuming of the house in Zech. 5, the judgment of the woman in Numbers and in Revelation are all the same event.

    An objection might be raised that the disaster in Zech. 14 falls upon the enemies of Jerusalem, not Jerusalem itself. But the biggest enemy of Jerusalem was Jerusalem. There is a heavenly Jerusalem, those whose names were written in heaven, and an earthly Jerusalem, those whose names are cursedly written on earth. One is free, the other in slavery. Gal. 4:24 - 26:

    "Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother."

    Zechariah 14 is an account of God's judgment on unfaithful Israel. Context and cross-reference - not futuristic imagination - helps us to accurately interpret this passage.
     
Loading...