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C. H. Spurgeon and the KJV

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by stilllearning, Dec 13, 2008.

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  1. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    This quote come from, “Extracts on Science” by C. H. Spurgeon
    --------------------------------------------------
    I normally don’t submit the words of others, but these words are so in line with my opinion, that I would do it this one time.
     
    #1 stilllearning, Dec 13, 2008
  2. Samuel Owen

    Samuel Owen New Member

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    I find a lot of wisdom in Spurgeon's words, which I will agree with 100%. :thumbs:
     
    #2 Samuel Owen, Dec 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2008
  3. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    The quotes (heavily elided as they are) are from The Greatest Fight in the World, which was, in part, a defense of the inspiration and sufficiency of Scripture.

    Spurgeon is taking to task not textual critics per se but the higher criticism of the German school:

    And:

    As an example of Spurgeon's true sentiments, I would suggest looking at his sermon Heart Disease Curable, based on Isaiah 61:1:

    Preaching on Deuteronomy 33:24-25 (Shoes of Iron, and Strength Sufficient: A New Year's Promise) Spurgeon vouches for the Authorized Version's rendering but says:

    Or you can check "And We Are" – A Jewel From the Revised Version" in which he preached on I John 3:1:

     
    #3 rsr, Dec 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 14, 2008
  4. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Hi rsr

    Nice to hear from you, but you missed the point of this post.
    (But it is my fault, because of it’s title....“C. H. Spurgeon and the KJV”.)

    I should have entitled it, “A statement, that I agree with”
    --------------------------------------------------
    You will notice, the statement that I made in this post.......
    The point being made, is my agreement with this statement;
    The fact that C. H. Spurgeon made this statement, is of secondary importance.

    In other words, Spurgeon was just a man, like you or I, and he made mistakes like everyone does. But this statement, that he made about the KJV, was right on, so therefore I posted it.

    I was aware that he sometimes used other translations, but this particular statement of his, is the point that I was making.


    Sorry for the misunderstanding
     
    #4 stilllearning, Dec 14, 2008
  5. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    In the early days right up to the mid fifties, we all defended the KJV. It was part of being a "fundamentalist" and not liberal. We were often aware of the mistakes in the KJV. Some we labelled "seeming contradictions".

    In later years, as better revisions came along, we started the move to more reliable versions, and even backed off some on the RSV.

    I think we must understand Spurgeon's remarks in light of the great controversy in the British Baptist Union and why he was expelled from that Union along with his church. Spurgeon actually favoured the more common version of his day. At least, that is what you will find in most of his books.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #5 Jim1999, Dec 14, 2008
  6. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    That's simply YOUR opinion. Please don't post it as if it's a fact. :thumbs:
     
    #6 Baptist4life, Dec 14, 2008
  7. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    My friend, it is fact from where I come from. I was not born yesterday.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #7 Jim1999, Dec 14, 2008
  8. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Then you are the one who has missed the point. Spurgeon was not talking about the KJV as opposed to modern versions; he was talking about higher criticism and the inspiration and sufficiency of Scripture.

    I know that Spurgeon's works have been looted to make it appear he thought the Authorized Version infallible, but such quotes — as in this case — are taken out of context and at odds with what he really believed.

    You have, in fact, presented Spurgeon as saying something he didn't say if you imply or state that he was talking about the KJV, or even textual criticism, in the OP. That was the point.
     
    #8 rsr, Dec 14, 2008
  9. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    How can you make a statement like that? Show me absolute PROOF that there are BETTER, MORE RELIABLE translations than the KJV? ANY "proofs" you supply will only be "opinions". No one knows WHICH is the BEST translation really, because there are arguments over which manuscripts are better, and more close to the original text. So, your statement continues to be your OPINION, not fact. Hence, all these KJV vs. MV threads! :laugh:
     
    #9 Baptist4life, Dec 14, 2008
  10. 4His_glory

    4His_glory New Member

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    Well, my Spanish version (RVR 1960) is better and more reliable because the grammar structure of spanish is closer to greek than that of english to greek. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #10 4His_glory, Dec 14, 2008
  11. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    Again, that would depend on which manuscripts you used in your translation, wouldn't it? And right now, and possibly forever, that is a matter of OPINION as to which is better. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #11 Baptist4life, Dec 14, 2008
  12. 4His_glory

    4His_glory New Member

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    Manuscripts aside, the fact still remains true regarding the grammar. Which means that at least in one sense, a spanish translation will follow the original grammar structure closer than english if a sound translation principle is used.
     
    #12 4His_glory, Dec 14, 2008
  13. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    If one reads what I wrote, you will uderstand I was giving an historical step of actions taken by "fundamentalists" in the face of modernism, which came to a head, in Canada, in 1927. The battle continued on into the mid 50's and even was arond in the 60's.

    I never said a word about the validity of translations by actual study or scientific evidence. WE just accepted the KJV in the pulpit in general. We made corrections, as did Mr. Spurgeon, as we went along.

    This is why so many heated arguments get going. Too many do not read what is said.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #13 Jim1999, Dec 14, 2008
  14. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    That is what I have read among Spurgeon's writings as well. He preferred the authorized version rather than a more archaic translation and commented even though it was not perfect it was still the best they had at the time.
     
    #14 gb93433, Dec 14, 2008
  15. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    al you gacve us was your opinion. So show us the facts to the contrary. Show us that what you commented on is nothing more than opinion by the facts you provide.

    It never ceases to amaze me how many have no facts with their attacks.

    Attacks with no facts are nothing more than lies.
     
    #15 gb93433, Dec 14, 2008
  16. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    Just my point! I don't post things as FACT, since NO one can PROVE one version better than another, it's all personal preference.



    Perhaps you should have addressed this to Jim1999 since HE is the one who posted something as FACT?
     
    #16 Baptist4life, Dec 14, 2008
  17. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    "He preferred the authorized version rather than a more archaic translation"?Are you saying that Spurgeon preferred the KJV more than the Geneva,Bishop's Bible etc.?I don't understand your point.
     
    #17 Rippon, Dec 14, 2008
  18. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    Is the opinion of Jim1999 necessarily any worse (or any better) than that of your own, which would appear to be that the KJV is a more reliable version than are the so-called "MVs"? Or are either of your opinions necessarily any better or any worse than my own opinion, which is not even in view, here?

    And I do seem to recall a couple of times where Baptist4life has posted an opinion about a version, as though it were fact, I believe.

    Personally, I fail to see any qualitative difference between the opinion(s) of Jim1999 and/or that of Baptist4life, and/or that of EdSutton, frankly.

    Ed
     
    #18 EdSutton, Dec 14, 2008
  19. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    BFL,most modern versions are more reliable than the KJV.And most conservative scholars believe that the TR is inferior .
     
    #19 Rippon, Dec 14, 2008
  20. Baptist4life

    Baptist4life Well-Known Member
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    Of course they do, but they can not prove that as FACT. Neither can I prove the KJV is the more accurate. It's all personal preference, that's ALL I'm saying. NEVER did you see a post where I state "the KJV is MORE accurate, and that's a FACT".
     
    #20 Baptist4life, Dec 14, 2008
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