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Common Salvation (differences)

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by GordonSlocum, Apr 6, 2009.

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  1. GordonSlocum

    GordonSlocum New Member

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    The text is John 1:1-13


    I would like to ask that no one quote long answers or post excessive answers. My attention span is very short and I personally don't want to wade through endless redundancy.
     
    #1 GordonSlocum, Apr 6, 2009
  2. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Are you looking for commentary on just the highligted text?
     
    #2 ReformedBaptist, Apr 6, 2009
  3. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Praise God that the Light came and made me a child of God.
     
    #3 annsni, Apr 6, 2009
  4. GordonSlocum

    GordonSlocum New Member

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    9. There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.

    How do you understand world?
    How do you understand "enlightens every man."
     
    #4 GordonSlocum, Apr 6, 2009
  5. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    The way the John consistantly uses it throughout his writings (when speaking of people and not a system or region), which is exemplified here - all sinful men/mankind


    To enlighten means to 'cause to understand' or to 'bring understanding to', but it is more than rudamentry understanding but a specific kind of understanding is being addressed as to what is being made known/understood. That enlightenment is something that apparently man can obtain himself and thus it must be revealed by Christ - The True Light. What is the only thing that scripture states man can not come to know of or by himself - spiritual truth.
    [The Holy Spirit is sent into the world to convict it of sin, righteousness, and the judgment to come.] ie.. the world (sinful mankind) will know and understand these spiritual truths as God reveals them to each and every person.

    And thus Jesus being the True Light is the one who brings spiritual understanding to all sinful mankind about Himself (via the Holy Spirit). IOW - They not only know it but understand it. The enlightenment referenced is directly related to the source and therefore is specifically about 'the source itself'. And the only way to go deeper into the truth is to accept what truth has already been given them
     
    #5 Allan, Apr 6, 2009
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  6. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Common salvation??? the verse talks about no such thing!
    Apparently it's the word "enlightenment" that's giving you trouble.
    It doesn't mean salvation

    As Jesus gave light, so we are to give light.

    “You are the light of the world—like a city on a hilltop that cannot be hidden. No one lights a lamp and then puts it under a basket. Instead, a lamp is placed on a stand, where it gives light to everyone in the house.
    In the same way, let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father."
    Matthew 5:14-16 NLT

    Rob
     
    #6 Deacon, Apr 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2009
  7. GordonSlocum

    GordonSlocum New Member

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    Hi Rob,

    No I don't have a problem with the verse. What I am hoping for in this thread titled "Common Salvation" is not for each of us to analyze the others statements and thus give correction from our point of view, but to give your personal position and understanding on the particular point, in this case two questions.

    RB and I have agreed to try and have a discussion in this manner and would like for all interested to do the same. The approach would be - Not having a problem with others, but share their view, yours, mine, less any reference to anyone having problem with the other views.


    Gordon


    9. There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.

    How do you understand world?
    How do you understand "enlightens every man."

    The use of "world" here takes on the meaning of "every man". The reason I come to this understanding is that the conversation is about Jesus bringing light to every man. The word "world" of course is used in different ways but for me in these verses world refers to the realm of humanity.

    Verse 4, "light of men"
    Verse 6, "a man sent from God"
    Verse 7, "all men might believe"
    Verse 9, "gives light to all men"
    Verse 10, "the world did not recognize Him"
    Verse 11, "his own"
    Verse 12, "to all who received"

    So, my conclusion is that "world" becomes synonymous with all men, all humanity.

    P. S. A very literal reading of verse 9 would be "It was the light the true one which enlightens every man, coming into the world." There are differences in how translations render this verse. I personally, agree with the KJV and the NASV. The NASV is more likely the correct understanding. The context is speaking to Christ coming into the world and to translate it as the NASV does puts the emphasis on Christ coming into the world rather than men coming into the world. The word order is correct in the KJV, but the NASV I believe better conveys the meaning.
     
    #7 GordonSlocum, Apr 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2009
  8. Shortandy

    Shortandy New Member

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    Go back and read the text again. It can mean salvation. Salvation is a knowlege of Christ and His sacrifice. Yet in the text we are told in verse 10 that the world didn't "know" Him. In verse 11 His own people (Jews) did not receive Him.

    It can't mean salvation or there is a contradiction within the text.
     
    #8 Shortandy, Apr 10, 2009
  9. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    dbl post. :BangHead:
     
    #9 ReformedBaptist, Apr 10, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2009
  10. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    1. world here must be defined by context. Most words (probably nearly all of them) have a semantic range. World can mean a small group or a larger one. The immediate context of this text sets the range to "every man"

    2. enlighten/lighteth means to illumine. This text then teaches that Christ Jesus illumines every man (all mankind) that comes into the world. Man's reason and conscience are not evolved organs but are the creation of Christ Jesus. "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them." Romans 1:19

    The light given to man in his natural state is not enough to save him, but enough to condemn him.
     
    #10 ReformedBaptist, Apr 10, 2009
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