Obey every ordinance of man

Hello,

I don't know what an "unjust government" is. Today, they are all unjust. I guess it depends on what the masses deem unjust. Maybe one day the nation will take up arms against a government who supports religion being spoken in public - very unjust to them and obtuse thinking that corrupts the advancement of society - who knows.

 

As a Pastor of over 20 years will you be silenced by "hate crime" laws forbidding you to say from the pulpit, that homosexuality is a sin? Would you be willing to give up the church's tax exempt status in order to preach the truth?

If man's law is in direct contradiction of God's law, obey God's law regardless of the cost, prepare to preach from a jail cell if it comes to that.

 

I don't see any evidence in scripture that Christians are commanded or encouraged to resort to violence to solve problems.

I see just the opposite. Christians are commanded not to resort to evil when faced with evil, but rather to pray for those who persecute.

peace to youraying:

 

Your answer is in the entirety of the Scriptural reference: Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men.

Paul also said that rulers are not a terror to good works.

When a government becomes a terror to good works, when they punish them that do well (the afore-mentioned hate-crimes laws) and praise the evildoers (as they do Sodom), then they are no longer rulers. They are tyrants and usurpers and must be resisted.

 

We are in a unique situation in the U.S., where we can resist without violence to bring about change in our government.

Christians are never commanded or encouraged to engage in violence for political purposes.

peace to youraying:

 

Much of the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ are pacifist in nature. Do you simply ignore what you don't want to believe?

Forgive me, but you are not the final authority of what is Biblical and what is not.

That you choose to ignore numerous passages of scripture which teach us that Christians are not to participate in violence is dangerous and obviously unbiblical.

Islam has many teachers that encourage their followers to engage in violence to achieve political ends. They convince their followers that it is OK with God to do evil.

Christians are called to be different.

peace to youraying:

 

Here is the text of the Declaration of Independence.

http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/freedom/doi/text.html

Would you have signed it?

Many Loyalists moved to Canada after the war, would you have done so?


HankD

 

Peter was commanded by the authorities not to preach Jesus, but he disobeyed.

Acts 4:18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

Peter and the other apostles continued to preach and heal after this and were arrested.

Acts 5:25 Then came one and told them, saying, Behold, the men whom ye put in prison are standing in the temple, and teaching the people.
26 Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned.
27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council: and the high priest asked them,
28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Peter said we ought to obey God rather than men.

 

First, it might be worth our while to repeat your initial post and compare it to what you are now saying:

So, you quoted scripture and then suggested that the passage of scripture "....commands us, to take up arms against those who trash our constitution"

Now, that appears to me that you are using God's Word to justify armed rebellion against "those who trash our constitution" (whatever that means).

Therefore, you have clearly used scripture in an attempt to justify doing evil to accomplish political ends. That is exactly what some Muslems do with the Koran.

Now, unless your faith in Christ has nothing to do with scripture, then your faith in Christ must have SOMETHING to do with your desire for armed rebellion for political purposes should you think it necessary.

My freedom is in Christ. It cannot be taken from me by any government or any man.

And whatever else you think about the value of freedom, the only thing that really matters is what Christ tells us in God's Word.

And God's Word tells us not to rebel against governments. God's Word tells us not to repay evil for evil. God's Word tells us to pray for those who persecute us.

Rebel against God's Word if you must. But don't pretend you are being biblical while you do it.

peace to youraying:

 

It's not an easy call.

A case can be made that everyone of us who chooses to remain a citizen of the United States of America has put our stamp of approval on an armed rebellion with bloodshed against the Crown.

In another post, I gave a URL of an online copy of the Declaration of Independence.

IMO, any American citizen who reads and approves of the document is part and parcel of the rebellion against the Crown.

If one cannot approve of our foundational documents, then shouldn't one apply for citizenship to Great Britain? If not, why not?

If we are to obey this government then it would seem that one would have to believe that God also approved of the armed rebellous inception of this nation.

Prove my opinion wrong.

Why was it scriptural to be a Loyalist (obeying the law of the Crown) then but not now?

That aside; Actually, stilllearning is not too far off base. When I volunteered for military service, I took an oath to defend the Constitution and my country against all enemies "foreign or domestic".

During a Civil war or "Rebellion" the definition of "domestic enemy" and "the officers appointed over me" can be a subjective call.


HankD

 

Let's see.... obey God's Word.....or....rebel against God's Word? Not an easy call?

I agree that many Christians find it difficult to accept the truth of God's Word when it is contrary to what they want to believe, despite their professions of belief that the bible is God's revelation of Himself to His creation.

That is no more true than saying everyone of us who chooses to remain a citizen of the United States of America has put our stamp of approval on the slaughter of untold millions of Native Americans, including women and children, for the sake of stealing their land.

It is easily shown from scripture (Rom. 13 and others) that Christians are not to rebel against the government. It is easily shown from scripture that Christians are not to repay evil for evil (Rom. 12 and others). It is up to you to show us why scripture is wrong and you are right.

So, to say God approved of Christians rebelling against a government is to have God contradicting His revealed Word.

There is no doubt that God used the rebellion in the States to His purposes. God uses the evil of men to bring about good. Joseph was sent into slavery in Eygpt. His brothers meant it for evil, but God meant it for good. God used their evil act to bring about His purposes.

The same with the founding of America.

Your call to Christ supercedes your oath to this country. You cannot serve two masters when devotion to the one is contrary to following the other.

peace to youraying:

 

It seems you have tried to skirt the issue by bringing in the smokescreen of the Native Americans and our treatment thereof.

The true issue: America is a nation born of a rebellion against the Crown of England.

You need to immediately repatriate to Great Britain seeing your position against war and rebellion against a legitimate government..

Incidently, I was unsaved when I joined the service.

HankD

 

As an addendum, I was saved while in the military almost 50 years ago.

Today I would, if I could, still do my duty to my country and be willing to lay down my life for my fellow Americans.

HankD