I do not understand the concept that you can be a Baptist but believe what ever you want. Can you explain that to me?
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Cafés in churches
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
I do not understand the concept that you can be a Baptist but believe what ever you want. Can you explain that to me?
MovieProducer
New Member
Can I get an Irish coffee? Or is that not OK?
Depends on if you go to church with a "grace-stealer" or not...
Priesthood of the Believer, and Individual soul liberty.
Each Baptist church is autonomous. No outside organization or other churches can tell that church it has to believe anything. If the church submits to that, then they no longer are autonomous, but are now under the authority of the outside organization or church.
Will someone answer my question? Do SBC churches have to agree to the BF&M before they become part of the SBC? I have heard they do.
saturneptune
New Member
I can only speak for the SBC church I attend. No, one does not have to agree to the BF and M to be part of the SBC. A couple of years ago, we set up a committee to update our Constitution and By Laws and voted to use the BF and M as a general framework. To this date the job has not be completed.
For example, our congregation has never been able to come to an official policy on serving communion (open or closed), and we do not follow the BF & M in that regard.
Our church is totally autonomous. If there was ever a hint of be required to follow SBC dictates, my guess is a quick vote would be taken to remove ourselves of the SBC.
Bob Alkire
New Member
I will say many if not most churches around here have a gym. I won't say they are used for workouts or not, I don't know. I know I don't use them for workouts. When I finish my 12 to 14 hours of work, I don't want to work out. And yes, I'm a good Baptist, I have fattening up, well.
So is it your position that these two doctrines are the single two doctrines that make one a Baptist? In other words so long as you hold to these any other doctrine is fine?
Brother if the church has "chosen" to agree with any particular statement then there is no loss of autonomy. But autonomy does not mean forced association. Churches who do not hold to a particular statement are free to go elsewhere. But that does not answer my question.
yes they do
They DON'T
To be a member in good standing one must be contributor to the SBC's CP--last I heard the amount is minimum $100.00 per year
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
If a church chooses to be a part of the SBC, they choose to agree to what the SBC believes. They are entirely free not to be a part of it.
So if someone wants to join a local church, they can believe anything they want and say it's part of the liberty of the soul? Autonomy in a local church is important, but so is the autonomy of the local Ass'n, state convention and nation entities.
btw, the BF&M is a guideline of general beliefs. For example, it doesn't take a position on a specific eschatological position or that the Lord's Supper be open or close or closed.
So if someone wants to join a local church, they can believe anything they want and say it's part of the liberty of the soul? Autonomy in a local church is important, but so is the autonomy of the local Ass'n, state convention and nation entities.
btw, the BF&M is a guideline of general beliefs. For example, it doesn't take a position on a specific eschatological position or that the Lord's Supper be open or close or closed.
Therefore there is no loss of autonomy
Saturneptune:
LOL
OK, back to our discussion on Coffee in churches...
Since Coffee contains the drug, Caffeine, aren't Cafes in churches promoting drug use!... :tonofbricks:
OK, OK, that did sound kinda Mormon!!!!
Sorry.
Revmitchell:
Blackbird:
OK, This is why I was confused,..... So instead of hijacking this thread, which I completely apologize for, maybe we can all go for a cup of Java at our nearest church cafe, and discuss this...
LOL
OK, back to our discussion on Coffee in churches...
Since Coffee contains the drug, Caffeine, aren't Cafes in churches promoting drug use!... :tonofbricks:
OK, OK, that did sound kinda Mormon!!!!
Sorry.
Maybe I need to go back and review the criteria to be in good standing with the SBC
But it sounds to me that for a church in the state of FL to be in good standing with the state convention of Florda---that particular church must behave in lining up with the SBC's BF&M---but I read nowhere in the SBC's constitution where any particular church anywhere must adhere word for word with the BF&M---I don't know---maybe John Sullivan knows something I don't!!! The big question is---why does the SBC demand that Floridian churches line up to the BF&M but all other churches are excused???
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I do not know but having been part of a church start I was grilled by John Sullivan,via mail, about the BF&M after I already made the statement that I support the BF&M in full without reservation.
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Does the SBC NOT require it's churches to agree to the BF&M?
The answer is no!! I know of several SBC (not duly aligned with the CBF) who have not adopted the 2000 BFM. They are sticking with the older version.
Now there are new church starts that are receiving funds to supplement a pastor's salary. That pastor must state his agreement with the 2000 BFM. Our missionaries, etc. also have to state their agreement with the 2000 BFM. Our seminary professors have to state their agreement with the 2000 BFM. And, all this for a good reason. The vast majority of SBC churches don't want the money they contribute to the cooperative program being used to support that which they do not agree with. I do not want my church to support a new church start that ordains women pastors or deacons. I don't want to support missionaries that believe that the Bible only contains God's word as opposed to being God's word.
The answer is no!! I know of several SBC (not duly aligned with the CBF) who have not adopted the 2000 BFM. They are sticking with the older version.
Now there are new church starts that are receiving funds to supplement a pastor's salary. That pastor must state his agreement with the 2000 BFM. Our missionaries, etc. also have to state their agreement with the 2000 BFM. Our seminary professors have to state their agreement with the 2000 BFM. And, all this for a good reason. The vast majority of SBC churches don't want the money they contribute to the cooperative program being used to support that which they do not agree with. I do not want my church to support a new church start that ordains women pastors or deacons. I don't want to support missionaries that believe that the Bible only contains God's word as opposed to being God's word.
I needed to make a correction here we did apply for start up funds.
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OK - Back on topic! LOL
So we're looking to plant a new campus of our church about 40 minutes away from here. We found two storefronts that seem to be perfect and DH is going to meet with the real estate agent today. When DH showed me the property, I came up with an idea that we're toying with and I'd like to toss it out here. We're going to be a new church with only two times to meet each week - Sunday morning for the service and then we're going to have home groups for our congregation to meet each week. Especially for now, our home church will continue to have all of the other things that will meet other needs - classes, youth group, other ministries, etc. However, the location of the church (if we get this place) is right in a strip mall with multiple food restaurants there. There's a Quiznos, a Chinese food place, a Greek place and a deli. What I thought about doing was, during the week at lunch time, opening the church up from say 11 to 2 and have some comfortable chairs, tables, WiFi, free coffee and quiet music (similar to a Starbucks feeling) for people to come in to have their lunch. Since the church would only be open on Sundays otherwise, we think this could be a good use of the space and possibly show the people in the area that churches aren't scary things and who knows - maybe someone will come to know Christ through this "cafe". Do you think this could work? Do you see any issues that might come up that we don't know about? It's certainly not something we have decided on but I think it would atleast utilize the space much better than only opening on Sunday morning!
So we're looking to plant a new campus of our church about 40 minutes away from here. We found two storefronts that seem to be perfect and DH is going to meet with the real estate agent today. When DH showed me the property, I came up with an idea that we're toying with and I'd like to toss it out here. We're going to be a new church with only two times to meet each week - Sunday morning for the service and then we're going to have home groups for our congregation to meet each week. Especially for now, our home church will continue to have all of the other things that will meet other needs - classes, youth group, other ministries, etc. However, the location of the church (if we get this place) is right in a strip mall with multiple food restaurants there. There's a Quiznos, a Chinese food place, a Greek place and a deli. What I thought about doing was, during the week at lunch time, opening the church up from say 11 to 2 and have some comfortable chairs, tables, WiFi, free coffee and quiet music (similar to a Starbucks feeling) for people to come in to have their lunch. Since the church would only be open on Sundays otherwise, we think this could be a good use of the space and possibly show the people in the area that churches aren't scary things and who knows - maybe someone will come to know Christ through this "cafe". Do you think this could work? Do you see any issues that might come up that we don't know about? It's certainly not something we have decided on but I think it would atleast utilize the space much better than only opening on Sunday morning!
Ann, if you end up doing this I'd also add a small library corner with Bibles and some Christian books. Doesn't have to be "Check-out", just reading material for while they are there. Also, I was going to sugggest you could have small free home-baked goodies to go with the coffee. From my understanding if nothing is charged there are no health regulations, although that may depend on the state, but I would also suggest you check the menus of the strip mall restaurants carefully, since this could cause ill will if you offer something similar to what they have for free. Don't know if they have desserts, but they might. Please keep us posted! 
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Nope, it's sinful.
People might enjoy it.
You might have more people come--and of course, that would mean you must be doing something wrong.
A strip mall!!!! NOW YOU HAVE DONE IT!!! YOU KNOW God frowns on nudity! :tonofbricks:
HEY, is Rbell throwing bricks at me?
Seriously, I would love the idea... IMO... GO FOR IT!
Just make sure you meet the Health Dept. regs for serving food. Around here the ones running it would have to have food handlers cards showing they passed the Health Dept. training program.
OH, and make sure you meet all other city ordinances.. maybe you could meet with the city planners office for some advice.