Gen 10:14 - From whom did the Philistines originate?

I appreciate your confidence in me! Don't know if I can fulfill it, but here goes.:type:

First of all, your Chinese is probably much better than mine if you can look this up in four Chinese versions! All I have is the Union, and only the NT handy (I have a complete Bible in the mainland script somewhere put away). At any rate, of the four main versions of the Japanese Bible, only the Shinkaiyaku (paid for by the Lockman Foundation, the NASB people) has Casluhites.

Concerning the textual cricitism of the verse, as I'm sure you know, OT textual criticism is seldom discussed or written about. I only have one book on it, Ellis R. Brotzman's Old Testament Textual Criticism, and it doesn't mention the verse. My Hebrew OT also doesn't mention it. (Anyone know of a cheap Hebrew OT with apparatus?)

Here's my theory about these Asian versions. If Morrison's Chinese Bible, the first, had the Caphtorites for whatever reason, the others would have followed suit. This includes the Japanese Bibles which started out following the Chinese versions in many cases. I have over and over seen the more recent Bibles here repeat the errors of the first one, the Moto Yaku, which was based partly on the Chinese.

Frankly, I would go with the results of Western scholarship on this one: the Casluhites. (Check your commentaries, including Keil & Delitzsch, who point out Caphtor in Amos 9:7 and Joshua 13:3.) Scholarship in China, Japan and most other countries in Asia is at a low level--not from a lack of intelligence of course, but from other factors. Consider that only one percent of the population in Japan claims to be Christian, and though China may have 5 to 10 percent, they have been bullied by the government for a long time, holding scholarship back. So in most of Asia, pastors only have access to a Bible school education, or at most a Bible college degree.

Grad school is out of the question in some countries, though this is changing. I was recently in another Asian country (86% Muslim) and had the privilege of talking by phone to the head of a brand new seminary there.

Thanks for an interesting question!

 

does this help? verbiage from Keil-Delitzsch:

 

Scholars disagree greatly about the origin of the Philistines. Rameses III, who was Pharaoh during the time of Joshua, descrobes battling some sea-people called Purusati; his description of them, their dress, weapons, language, & habits resembles that of the Philistines. Rameses said they were from CRETE. Many scholars identify Caphtor with Crete.

Some say they were originally Mycenaean pirates who, finding the land that became known as Philistia to their liking, decided to settle there & abandon the risky lifestyle of pirates. But they still kept up their fighting skills and iron weapons, as more than one other people cast covetous eyes upon their land.

Seems that they were of Cretan origin, although not necessarily directly from the Mycenaeans.

 

from the footnote in the NET Bible, fwiw.

 

Traditionally, we always followed the Philistines as descending from Casluhim, the grandson of Ham (Gen 10:14). They migrated to Palestine from Crete. We never had any reason to alter this thinking.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Knowledge of Hebrew language can clarify the text but not necessarily it’s meaning.
Word order can be problematic in the Hebrew language.

The “literal translation” of Genesis 10:13-14 and it’s companion text, 1 Chronicles 1:11-12 is similar to the ESV’s rendition.

Pathrusim, Casluhim (from whom the Philistines came), and Caphtorim.
Genesis 10:14 ESV

Egypt fathered Ludim, Anamim, Lehabim, Naphtuhim,
Pathrusim, Casluhim (from whom the Philistines came), and Caphtorim.
1 Chronicles 1:11-12 ESV

But the alternative translation (as seen in the NLT) is a possibility.

Pathrusites, Casluhites, and the Caphtorites, from whom the Philistines came.
Genesis 10:14 NLT

Mizraim was the ancestor of the Ludites, Anamites, Lehabites, Naphtuhites,
Pathrusites, Casluhites, and the Caphtorites, from whom the Philistines came.
1 Chronicles 1:11-12 NLT


A quick look at various commentaries shows possible reasons for the differences.

As Jim noted: “[T]he table may suggest migration rather than lineage, and the Philistines, like the Israelites, came through the Nile Delta region of Egypt.” (Net Bible textual note)

‘That the Philistines are linked both with the Cretans and the Casluhim suggests a close association between these two groups.” (Wenham in WBC Gen 1-15, p 225)

“t may be that the Philistines of Genesis represent a different group from the Philistines of the post-conquest period (so Cassuto 2:207–8; Kitchen, POTT, 56.)” (Wenham in WBC Gen 1-15, p 225)


because of the day that is coming to destroy
all the Philistines,
to cut off from Tyre and Sidon
every helper that remains.
For the LORD is destroying the Philistines,
the remnant of the coastland of Caphtor.
Jeremiah 47:4 ESV


“Are you not like the Cushites to me,
O people of Israel?” declares the LORD.
“Did I not bring up Israel from the land of Egypt,
and the Philistines from Caphtor and the Syrians from Kir?”
Amos 9:7 ESV

Rob

 

I'll buy that--as long one text/textbook in the NT course is the Byzantine Textform (lots of info in Dr. Robinson's 24 page preface). :smilewinkgrin:

 

Now that's interesting! Sounds like a great class. I wonder why those textbooks? Of course there wasn't a whole lot of solid stuff for you to choose from--still isn't. But Harry Sturz published his book in 1984 and Wilbur Pickering's is copyright 1977 and 1980. And of course with enough fortitude you can plow through some of Burgon--crashingly boring at times!