Differences in terms ?

Patience is a virtue Pinoy. :tongue3:


I don't see a difference. Maybe I don't understand your question. Eternal life was made available through the once for all sacrifice of Christ. He is also our High Priest. (Heb. 5:10)

 

The Hebrews 5 passage uses the word eternal "salvation" (σωτηρία) whereas the 9:12 passage uses the word eternal "redemption." (λύτρωσις)

σωτηρία
1) deliverance, preservation, safety, salvation
a) deliverance from the molestation of enemies
b) in an ethical sense, that which concludes to the souls safety or salvation
1) of Messianic salvation
2) salvation as the present possession of all true Christians
3) future salvation, the sum of benefits and blessings which the Christians, redeemed from all earthly ills, will enjoy after the visible return of Christ from heaven in the consummated and eternal kingdom of God.

λύτρωσις
1) a ransoming, redemption
2) deliverance, esp. from the penalty of sin

Does that help any in your quest?

 

This is a tough question.

As for eternal redemption, the writer (probably Paul) was speaking to Jews. Each year the high priest had to enter the holiest of holies. So it was temporary, not eternal. So the writer is telling us that Jesus has now entered in once and for all to secure eternal redemption for us.

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

 

I'm not sure about the Hebrews 9 passage, but as for the Hebrews 5 passage, the word there translated as salvation, which also means deliverance, does not always mean an eternal salvation or eternal deliverance.

Although I don't know Greek, I have heard my profs say many times that Christians need to be careful about thinking that every time they see the word "salvation" or "saved" in the Bible that it necessarily means eternal salvation. It does not always mean that. So here, the word "eternal" is used to make it clear what it means.

 

I would say yes, the scriptures speak of believing as obeying.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Well, this is a more difficult question. I personally believe God holds men responsible for what is revealed to them.

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Seems clear to me that the more you know of God, the more accountable you are. But the scriptures say all men can know of God to a degree and all are without excuse.

So, exactly what do men who have never heard of Christ have to believe? I am not exactly sure. Perhaps they just know there is a creator who created all the universe and worship him and not idols. Even the ancient Jews did not know many details about the saviour to come, but did believe what was revealed to them at the time.

This is one of those questions that I am not sure anyone will ever know on this side.

Believing is obedience, but not necessarily a work. Jesus said, "ye believe in God, believe also in me" . If you do trust Christ, you have been obedient to Jesus, but you have not performed a work. Believing is trusting or depending on someone else, not ourselves, it is a ceasing from trying to save ourselves.

 

Thanks for the kind response. I know we do not agree on many things, but I still consider everyone here a friend. Have a good night.

 

I think one has to look at the context of Hebrews and that the author is addressing those who had become "dull of hearing" (v. 11). Some of the Jewish believers were hiding their Christian faith to avoid persecution and going back to Judaism, at least externally, and some maybe more.

So this chapter rebukes this behavior, leading to this rather startling statement in chapter 6:

One cannot think about the term "obey" in verse 9 by itself without looking at all the rest and without considering the message of the whole book of Hebrews.

 

I would say yes; but let me qualify it by saying I feel in scripture every man's salvation is dependant on his obedience to what God told him and then made possible by the spreading of the shed blood of Christ.
But we also must look at what God told each to obey.
God told Abraham to get up and move to a different land, and he did it. God also told Abraham to kill his son Isaac, and he would have.

God tells us today to believe and believing is not a work. (Rom 4:5)

Is man to look for an excuse of not doing what God told him to do because of God's relationship to some other man?
IMO God will not hold a man responsible for what God has not told that particular man.

Our salvation is made possible by the gift of the Faith of Christ, not our own personal faith in Christ; therefore the saving faith of any man is not a work. (Gal 2:15-16; 3:22-23) [this truth is only revealed in the KJV]

No worries my brother for I have developed an immunity to those bits.

 

Are you saying that one's salvation is dependent on obedience? Does this mean you think a person who is saved can lose his/her salvation and/or that someone must obey to be saved?

 

Hebrews 5:9 says "eternal salvation, and Hebrews 9:12 says "eternal redemption". However, I see no difference between salvation and redemption. In both scriptures Christ obtained eternal salvation (or redemption) for us.

Is there some difference you're seeing there?