Shepherd's Chapel from Gravette, AR

I lived 10 miles from there and a close friend of mine's mom is his secretary, though not apart of his church.
It has already been addressed as to it's doctrinal errors but I will restate an obivous .. it is a bona-fide CULT.

It is one of the larger growing cults presently, and even up here is SD he has many followers.

He also teaches that churches (instititional local bodies) are anti-scriptural. His group meets once a year for a picnic and has cose to a thousand if not more come from all over to shake the hand of this 'g'od sent man.

 

I used to watch him in the late 80's through the early 90's off n' on. I knew he was off. the deep end. I got a kick when he would rebuke his viewers with statements like: "I'm gonna' hit ya' over the head with a 2 by 4 if you don't listen to what I'm sayin'.

 

I used to listen to Arnold Murray occasionally, not too often any more. He is certainly a bit off the wall at times and I can only take so much, but I get a kick out of him sometimes, especially how he addresses the "any moment fly away rapture" ...haha...and he does have some very frank and good points to consider about the dangers in that teaching. It's no wonder he has so makes so many "friends".

I think he gets a bum rap from many because he is not into teaching traditions or by traditional methods. It is easy for some to take his words and twist the meanings and start rumors because of his unique methods.

I have heard him address the charge of being a "Modalist" and do not believe he is one. IMO, CARM has a strong reputation of putting twists onto other's theology or words when they have an agenda to put something down, I've seen them do it on other issues like in defining "libertarian freewill" and "replacement theology" and no doubt they would be doing the same to someone who is as forthcoming as Murray about him condemning the rapture teachings. CARM has very little credibility with me because of what I’ve witnessed of their shameful and vengeful expositions.

One thing about Murray is that he does not criticize other people or denominations, he simply teaches the Word and lets the chips fall were they may, which is more than I can say about his adamant critics. He often says not to take his word on things but to study the Word and check these things out for yourself. “That everyday in the Word is a good day.” :tongue3: lol

Right or wrong on his doctrinal issues, some of which are pretty far out there, I believe he is more honorable, open and honest about his discrepancies than most his critics.

 

nevermind......

 

Ben, are you serious? Murray is a cult leader. He may be charismatic, well read. and educated. But, when you seek out the truth concerning his ministry you can't help to see that he is cultic in his true teachings and beliefs.

 

He certainly cannot be taken seriously as he wanted nothing more than an opportunity to criticize Carm the same way he criticized others for criticizing Whatshisface. What a merry go round.

 

Early on when I used to listen to Murray, I used to turn him off when he got into the Cain/Kenite stuff as I did check him out on some of it like he asked and it appeared he was obviously stretching and into something weird there that wasn’t even worth spending my time on to investigate. Don’t think that makes him a cult. To me a cult tells you what you must believe, either suggesting to do so without asking questions about it and/or condemning you if you believe differently, and/or has an agenda within certain systematic teachings designed to twist every aspect throughout scripture to fit a particular doctrine which may be very problematic in the overall outcome. To be frank, IMO Pretrib Dispensationalism and Hard Determinism/Hyper Calvinism does more to fit the bill of cultic teachings, and/or is not teaching the true Word, and is more damaging than Murray’s Cain/Kenite stuff in comparison. Just MHO, not meant to insult or start a fight.

I’m not supporting his doctrines and don’t know all what depth he goes into, but from what I know about this run off over the “pre-Adamic people” it has something to do with that he believes in a gap theory and explains it in “earth ages”. I don’t think he teaches or believes there was “man” before Adam, but angels of a sort, or something like that in the “first earth age” which was destroyed (Gen 1:1,2) and that somehow that works in with supporting his gap theory. Again, when you have adamant YEC’s hearing support of a gap theory you are going to get accusations such as “teaching a people before Adam” I just take all the rhetoric from both sides of this issue with a grain of salt. I don’t know the answers about creation, but do question the accusation of Murray’s gap theory actually being deemed a cultic teaching.

From what I have heard, Murray does not believe that the flesh/dust of the earth is resurrected but he does believe in the resurrection in a new body. That is different than “NOT believing in a bodily resurrection”. Again, that seems to be a condemning motivated twist on his actual words, beliefs, or teachings from what I have heard.

Yes, I do believe Murray believes in annihilation and teaches it happens after the millennium in the third/last age at the time of the new heavens and earth. I also believe there are a lot of people here and in other denominations that believe in annihilation. Does this brand him as a cult?

I know you guys don’t like Murray and I certainly don’t buy into a lot of his teachings, but he has caused me to dig deeper, beware of traditions, and has made some valid eye opening points about such things as in eschatology. All I’m saying is that I have heard him teach a lot of this stuff and what I hear of the expositions over his teachings most often appear to be twists on what he actually says (most of this began by CARM and being repeated like an ugly rumor). At least from my observations.

Don’t get me wrong, because I don’t have a love affair with the guy and he would actually tick me off at times; I rarely ever watch him anymore and when I do it is usually just for a short time and then I usually leave giggling to myself and shaking my head. I just don’t hate him and have not seen the type of evidence that would make me call him cultic.

 

You have no clue of my motives. Matter of fact you didn't even make a good guess, because my point about CARM was a comparison over and about the credibility of the charges being made.

Other than that, it is true that Murray does not discuss gosip about him, other people or denominations, but sticks to the Word and if that example stings a bit, so be be it.

 

Most cults are skilled at mixing in enough sound doctrine in order to fool people into believing they are not dangerous.

The bible warns us about listening to false teachers. It doesn't warn us to just limit our listening.

 

Do you believe his teachings?

 

Actually it is obvious since you do the very thing your complain about. Using phrases like "agenda to put down" assigns motive. You own words reveals your agenda.

 

Amy, you can count for yourself in my post how many times I said I don't buy into his teachings! Honestly! You guys just thrive on acting like vultures sometimes.

 

But that is not the only false teaching that Murray espouses.

I'm not sure what hyper-Calvin you are referencing. If you'readdressing the Outside The Camp and Brandon Kraft doctines okay. However if you want to libel the Gospel Standard folks for instance, you are way out of line and have no discernment. The latter group adhere to teachings that are at odds with Scripture at various points -- but most of their beliefs (as seen in their creedal statement) is quite orthodox and within the realm of biblical norms.

I just don't get the disconnect you are experiencing.

This determinism you speak of -- do Gordon Clark and Herman Hoeksema fall into your category of heresy?

It would be better for you not to use the terms cult or cultic anyway -- it confuses the issues.

Not necessarily cultic, but certainly in serious error.

Why do you make it a personal matter? I don't like (hate) the policies of Obama. That doesn't mean I hate him personally.

You are certainly an inconsistent lad.

 

Dude...I look at these things while practicing using a philosophical eye. I went after the truth value in a source while questioning the credibility and giving examples of my reasoning to do so, it's abput logic. Now...admittedly I threw in a little rhetoric of my own...HEY...I gotta have some fun while debating too! :laugh:

 

Could you please inform us what "abput logic" is?

 

"Us"? Rip, I know better than to try to have a logical discussion with "you"; don't try to draw others into this. :tongue3:

For you, let's just say that the "p" is right next to the "o" and that would be your first clue to think on.