What a wonderful servant we have in Martin Luther

Wow . Nobody has a response.


Padre ?, RevMitchell, Matt Wade , ...any Lutheran breathren ?


I'm can't handle this one.

 

Dr.Bob, theologians, seminarians , reformers, Calvinists, Jim, Trotter ...anybody ?

 

That quote was a first for me. When and where did Luther say this ?

 

Now folks, don't let Brad upset you.

He claims membership at Landover Baptist Church.

Do your homework.

 

Yeah I know about Landover. But did Luther say such a thing ?

 

I don't have a clue. If you know about Landover, enjoy the satire.

 

I always enjoy satire. Sometimes it's even funny.

 

Hmm...what can I say to this? You've referenced me in the first post along with Padre and RevMitchell...is that an insult or a compliment? I'm not sure yet... :laugh:

My response...first, the guy is a troll. I'm not sure if Luther said that, as I haven't researched it. If he did though, I'm glad Baptists aren't Protestants!

 

Its clear Luther is a racist. In fact you can get his pamphlet or Book "The Jews and their Lies" from Amazon. Its full of racist propaganda. But what people don't understand is the majority of Europe was racist against the Jews. Why because they didn't adhere to Christian principles of not charging interest on loans, they had connections with the Turkish empire where they obtained a lot of wealth. They were seperated in Ghettos. And over all considered to be foreign. Luther was no different from the common German person.

 

Yes, Luther said things like this about the Jews. His attitude was certainly sub-Christian. But this doesn't take away the importance of his life and work. There were a couple of things at work here, though.

First, everything we read from Luther is translated from German, and he lived in a time where tough and sometimes salty language would have been used in dealing with subject matter that the author felt strongly was a problem. His culture saw Jews as being responsible for Christ's death, and he only suggested dealing with Jews inasmuch as it would take to convert them.

Second, Luther almost certainly suffered from depression for much of his adult life, and he had good days, when everything he said was positive and edifying, and bad days, where he would say inappropriate things like this.

 

Indeed: Luther's comments, though unacceptable, were very much the product of his life and times, just as Calvin's judicial murder of Servetus in 1555 was of his; they do not detract from the achievements of either in the Reformation.

 

Luther was an Augustine Monk and believed most of what Augustine taught.

Augustine, Luther, and Lutheran's today, believe in unconditional election and resistible grace. They also believe it is necessary to confess your sins to a church authority as the Catholics do. Below is from the Lutheran liturgy.

"The congregation confesses corporately, in other words together, usually in this manner:

Most merciful God, We confess that we have sinned against You in thought, word and deed, by what we have done and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart. We have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. We just deserve your present and eternal punishment. For the sake of your son, Jesus Christ, have mercy on us. Forgive us, renew us and lead us so that we may delight in your will and walk in your ways to the Glory of your Holy Name. Amen.

The Pastor replies.

Almighty God in His mercy has given His Son to die for you and for His sake forgives you all your sins. As a called and ordained servant of Christ and by His authority I therefore forgive you all your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

So it should come as no surprise that Luther believed as the Catholic church believed and taught, that the Jews were responsible for Christ's death and were enemies of God.

 

So the ends justify the means? Consequentialism is alive and well.

Peace!

 

The analogy you are making is that because Luther held to a few of the doctrines of the Catholic faith and that Catholics were anti-semetic, then Luther would necessarily be anti-semetic too. That's rediculous. Anti-semitism was rampant in that time and was held by Protestants, Catholics, Muslims, and heretics alike. The Jews were blamed for just about everything that went wrong in the world - including that black death.

Additionally, you seem to have a problem with people confessing their sins. This practice is, however, very scriptural.

James 5:16 (New International Version)
16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

Peace!

 

I found it on a variety of websites. However, this one has a whole lot more of his quotes, apparently he never recanted them:

http://www.catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/matluther.htm

 

This is liturgy. Liturgy is good in that it gives us a language to faithfully respond to the Spirit's leading. It is also good in that it keeps these practices at the forefront of our spiritual life no matter the season.

This is done corporately and is in no way like Catholic confession. It is not mandatory for repentance, but rather is included as a way of life. Lutheran theology very strongly holds to the priesthood of the believer. That was one of the very tenets of the reformation.

 

I am surprised the OP is allowed on these boards.

 

Yes, this is done corporately in the Lutheran liturgy. However, the Book of Worship (LCMS) does make a provision for private confession with a minister and is very similar to Catholic confession to a priest. I believe their (LCMS) position on private confession is: Everyone can, Nobody has to, Some people should!

Good insights into liturgy.