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Sorcery & Games

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Repent-or-Burn, Oct 7, 2010.

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  1. Repent-or-Burn

    Repent-or-Burn New Member

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    Is it a sin to play games that involve sorcery and the like?

    Specifically, games such as League of Legends. Mute your volume (he swears in this.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxgzZ2h6Ck8&hd=1

    Here's a list of this character's magical abilities:

    Arcane Mastery (Innate): When Ryze casts a spell, all other spells have their cooldown reduced by 1 second.

    Overload (Active): Ryze throws a charge of pure energy at an enemy unit for heavy damage and additional 10% damage based upon Ryze's maximum mana.

    Rune Prison (Active): Ryze traps an enemy unit, preventing them from moving and dealing 40 (+0.2 per ability power) magic damage per tick over the duration.

    Spell Flux (Active): Ryze unleashes a bouncing orb of magical power which bounces to enemy units or himself, up to 6 times. Each bounce deals magic damage and reduces the target's magic resistance for 5 seconds.

    Desperate Power (Active): Ryze becomes supercharged, gaining ability power and causing his spells to deal 65% AoE damage for 8 seconds.

    -----------------------------------------

    My interest in asking is that I have played this game and would love to play it more, however I have come to the place where I cannot do so in good conscience (2). It seems to go against scripture. If I can be shown otherwise, well.. ;)


    Under 1, I have shown verses that seem to imply we should be grieved at even seeing sin, let alone enjoying it.

    That assumes these games are sinful. Under 3, I have given verses that speak about the sin of sorcery, enchantments, etc.

    The question is first, it's not real. Is ti sinful if it's not real? I assume so. What would you say if you saw your son watching "fake" pornography?

    The second question is if it really is sorcery. Under 4, I have given some definitions. The ones from sourcelight (king james dictionary is what it called it's self), seem to imply not. Strongs isn't very descriptive.


    Can anyone give more information on this? Appreciated.


    ------------1------------
    2Pe 2:7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

    Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

    Psalm 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me.

    ------------2------------
    Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

    Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

    ------------3------------
    Isa 47:12 Stand now with thine enchantments, and with the multitude of thy sorceries, wherein thou hast laboured from thy youth; if so be thou shalt be able to profit, if so be thou mayest prevail.

    Act 8:11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.

    Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

    Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

    ------------4------------
    Strongs Sorceries g5331 φαρμακεία 3) sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it

    Studylight dictionary, sorcery: Magic; enchantment; witchcraft; divination be the assistance of evil spirits, or the power of commanding evil spirits.


    Strongs enchant: h5172 נחש

    1) to practice divination, divine, observe signs, learn by experience, diligently observe, practice fortunetelling, take as an omen
    a) (Piel)
    1) to practice divination
    2) to observe the signs or omens

    Modern dictionary, sorcery: the art, practices, or spells of a person who is supposed to exercise supernatural powers through the aid of evil spirits; black magic; witchery.

    Studylight dictionary, enchant:
    The act of producing certain wonderful effects by the invocation or aid of demons, or the agency of certain supposed spirits; the use of magic arts, spells or charms; incantation.

    Modern dictionary,enchant:
    1. to subject to magical influence; bewitch: fairytales about witches who enchant handsome princes and beautiful maidens.
    2. to delight to a high degree: Her gaiety and wit have enchanted us all.
    3. to impart a magic quality or effect to.

    However,

    Studylight dictionary, enchanter:
    1. One who charms or delights.
     
    #1 Repent-or-Burn, Oct 7, 2010
  2. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    It's a game....have fun.
     
    #2 matt wade, Oct 7, 2010
  3. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1 New Member

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    It can't be shown conclusively one way or the other. So if you can't do so in good conscience, it would be wise to not do so.
     
    #3 dwmoeller1, Oct 7, 2010
  4. Repent-or-Burn

    Repent-or-Burn New Member

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    The one with "weak" conscience is in a word, immature. It may be possible to become strong, or mature, if I am shown for sure what the CORRECT definitions are of sorcery, etc. The two dictionaries I have shown disagree with eachother.
     
    #4 Repent-or-Burn, Oct 7, 2010
  5. Repent-or-Burn

    Repent-or-Burn New Member

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    O.K., can you make an argument why you're right? Can you counter my argument related to this very type of comment, that if you found your son watching "fake" (game) porn, you wouldn't care?
     
    #5 Repent-or-Burn, Oct 7, 2010
  6. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    There's no such thing as fake porn...it's either porn or it isn't.
     
    #6 matt wade, Oct 7, 2010
  7. Repent-or-Burn

    Repent-or-Burn New Member

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    Okay, what about blasphemy? It's just a game, right?
    I also deny that statement. There are games out there that are pornographic, but involve no REAL humans and therefore no "real" sex.
     
    #7 Repent-or-Burn, Oct 7, 2010
  8. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1 New Member

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    Maybe so. But given that there is no definitive answer to this, seeking to "mature" in the context of "I want to play the game", is not the wisest thing IMO. One may intellectually believe and understand something more "maturely" yet the conscience may still be violated. So, even though Paul gives the truth "idols are nothing - meat offered to them is perfectly fine", he doesn't treat this as a cure for the weak in faith.

    So, IMO, the fact that you need to ask indicates that its probably better if you don't. Your brain can't overcome your conscience.
     
    #8 dwmoeller1, Oct 7, 2010
  9. Repent-or-Burn

    Repent-or-Burn New Member

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    DW,

    I've been in the IFB for a stretch. They are pharisees. Gambling is a sin, rock music is a sin, yoga (without meditation!) is a sin, etc. Does the Bible say that? no. Was I tempted to think they were a sin, until I researched it myself? yes. (Note, I quit the IFB 2 weeks ago. May I never go back.)

    Is it always the case that the knowledge will prevent violation of your conscience? No.
     
    #9 Repent-or-Burn, Oct 7, 2010
  10. Repent-or-Burn

    Repent-or-Burn New Member

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    We're getting side-tracked.

    What I want to know is this: What is the CORRECT definition of sorcery, etc.?
     
    #10 Repent-or-Burn, Oct 7, 2010
  11. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    My consern with games of this nature are addictive. I knew a guy who lost his job because he spent his time on line gaming being an elvin something or other. I've not seen a good result from the RPG fantasy stuff. Often clerics have a choice of multiple gods and sorcerers get into spell casting which isn't generally a good example to follow. My friend became so rapt up in this game he purposely missed work and struggles in his personal life.
     
    #11 Thinkingstuff, Oct 7, 2010
  12. dwmoeller1

    dwmoeller1 New Member

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    I would encourage you to seek out and gain knowledge as you have. Hence, the general discussion can be profitable. What I am reticent to do is to have the discussion in the specific context of "I really want to do this." Such a context can warp the line between "What is ok?" and "What should *I* do?" Its too easy to take a truth "idols are nothing" and decide "Therefore its ok for me to eat meat offered to idols." when in fact your conscience may still be troubled.

    So, while I don't think there is anything inherently wrong about playing the game, I would be extremely cautious in arguing that its ok for anyone to play the game. Better to choose not to play the game and then come and seek the truth of the matter in a more general context.
     
    #12 dwmoeller1, Oct 7, 2010
  13. Repent-or-Burn

    Repent-or-Burn New Member

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    DW, if my conscience still tells me it's wrong, then I have to deal with that..
    But there's nothing saying it will. I wouldn't know until (and if) I can be shown.

    So, can anyone tell me "what is sorcery" etc?
     
    #13 Repent-or-Burn, Oct 7, 2010
  14. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    From www.carm.org

    "The practice of using incantations and/or spells to control the spiritual realm in order to gain power and manipulate people and things. Sorcery was forbidden in Israel (Deut. 18:10) and was punishable by death (Exodus 22:8). It was practiced in Egypt (Exodus 7:11), Assyria (Nahm. 3:4), and Babylonia (Dan. 2:2). It is listed as one of the sins in Gal. 5:20."
     
    #14 annsni, Oct 7, 2010
  15. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    I would define it as
     
    #15 Thinkingstuff, Oct 7, 2010
  16. Repent-or-Burn

    Repent-or-Burn New Member

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    Thinking, where do you get that from?
     
    #16 Repent-or-Burn, Oct 7, 2010
  17. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff Active Member

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    From a list of definitions off of google.
     
    #17 Thinkingstuff, Oct 7, 2010
  18. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    The fact that the question is asked and the conscience is bothered I think gives the full answer requested. If you watch something on tv, listen to something on the radio/cd/mp3 player, or play a game that bothers your conscience, the rule of thumb is to stop watching the show, listening to the music, or playing the game. That is like the question of whether or not it is ok to listen to heavy metal music. I did once upon a time and I can tell you that I struggled to justify it. There was a reason for that struggle. I don't listen to it anymore.

    If your conscience bothers you, then you need to quit doing whatever it is that you are doing.
     
    #18 RAdam, Oct 7, 2010
  19. Repent-or-Burn

    Repent-or-Burn New Member

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    As I said, I understand all of that...

    What I want to know right now, is what "is" the definition of sorcery, etc.? The correct one, and why do you think it's correct?
     
    #19 Repent-or-Burn, Oct 7, 2010
  20. RAdam

    RAdam New Member

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    Here is the definition for the Greek word used in the NT for a sorcerer:

    You'll note the reference to the practice of the nations like Babylon is assigning this name to those who practice these types of arts. They are mentioned in Daniel. Moses came up against them in the court of Pharoah.
     
    #20 RAdam, Oct 7, 2010
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