Cbf / aob

CBF and AOB folks may define themselves differently from this.

CBF is moderate-to-liberal, although there is a sprinkling of moderate-to-conservatives. It formed several years ago as a haven for those who simply didn't like the Conservative Resurgence in the Southern Baptist Convention, or the leaders associated with it.

AOB is super-liberal. Not likely to find any moderates or conservatives there.

I've not heard any buzz about merging. I would have thought that if it's going to happen, it would already have done so.

It may be that AOB is too liberal even for the CBF.

 

Not likely to be a merger anytime soon. in fact I would say one is more likely to "go out of business" then the two are to merge.

CBF is a moderate group in spirit and practice and while still holding to a conservative understanding of scripture. Some may not agree with this, but you can go and read their statements for yourself, they are conservative

Alliance of Baptists is group that is very similar to the CBF with two notable exceptions, and they would be considered biggies on this board. There is a greater emphasis on interdenominational and interfaith cooperation in the A of B. There is also an acceptance of monogamous homosexuality in the A of B.

 

My conservative understanding of scripture translates to inerrancy. I know quite a few CBF kind of folks, and I don't think any of them are inerrantists. Most of them think a lot of the OT is allegory, particularly the first eleven chapters of Genesis.

My take is, if they were conservative regarding scripture, they'd still be teaching in our Southern Baptist seminaries.

There are conservatives in the CBF, I'm sure, but they are a minority.

 

To show how we carry our own bias, I would consider what you described as a fundamentalist, not a conservative. That is within Baptist life. Within the larger Christian context, CBF is conservative, no doubt about it.

 

If you want to call the likes of Jimmy Carter conservative then be my guest. Many that I know who are CBF think that Jimmy Carter hung the moon.

 

A liberal friend of mine described me as conservative, but not fundamentalist, because I wasn't mad at anybody.

There are varying degrees of conservatism among Southern Baptists these days. Among the CBFers, there are varying degrees of liberalism.

You may consider them conservative, but doubt if many would call themselves that.

I'm speculating here, but for CBF conservatives, their switch from the SBC was not about theology, it was about power. They didn't like the way the Conservative Resurgence was carried out. They thought it was a power struggle, with theology as the excuse.

 

I'd consider CBF moderate conservative to mainline. It reminds me of the UMC, actually. Some churches and individuals are fairly conservative while others are fairly liberal.

 

I like that and it certainly is a definition of fundamentalist I'm going to keep I in my pocket. You're right about the power struggle situation, many in my state would fit this description. Also, many have dropped the identifier of conservative because of the baggage that tends to get associated with it.

 

Don't get me wrong. The Conservative Resurgence was about theology, and required a power struggle to fix it. The moderates and liberals who left the SBC lost control of the denominational machinery and of the seminaries.

The unity from conservatives they wanted when they were in control was not as important once the conservatives took over.

It's better for both sides that they formed the CBF as a home.

Conservatives should not run away from the term "power grab." That's exactly what it was and it was necessary.

 

I saw a lot of things when I was in seminary that led me to believe that little was the result of the so called leaders, but rather godly men and women doing what they should be doing. The resurgence was well under way and never penetrated SWBTS by the time the so called resurgence happened. I did not read one word from you about God's hand, but about man's power and control. If it is about man's power and control it will not last. That is what I believe we are seeing now.

 

Oh, I certainly agree that God's hand was in the Resurgence. It was analogous to the Children of Israel in their new land. God told them he had given them the land. But they still had to go fight for it.

When Judge Pressler et al developed the plan, that's all it was--a plan. It was carried out by local church pastors and their members who bought into it. They, uh, still had to fight the battle.

 

They still have a battle within their own ranks now. They think it is outside but it is themselves.

 

What do you think are the internal issues are within the SBC?

And I could be wrong, but I have the perception that the CBF is sorta losing steam. Your thoughts on that?

 

I think they both are losing steam. If both of them would get down to the business of what God has called them to be and do then they would see growth. When any of us turn to other things rather than trusting God then we have just put our trust in ourselves. When we do not seek to give ourselves away then we become internally focused and die.

 

I'm obviously sorta dense, since I don't quite understand your answer. Can you provide specific instances where the SBC is off-track? How is the SBC internally focused.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but specifics from your vantage point would be helpful.

 

To jump in on that one, the perfect example is the current chaos at NAMB. What is it 4 presidents in 5 years? If media reports are to be believed Kevin Ezell was elected, but not by much. There where public statements coming from state executive directors disapproving of his nomination and again reports are that many will be forced to retirement.

I'm not saying changes didn't need to be made, it just shows me that NAMB has been a rudderless ship for some time now.

But aren't we seeing this with many denominations? As religion decentralizes and becomes again more "locally minded" (we can do our own missions, we will send our own missionaries, et...) aren't all groups headed for a bit of downsizing and chaos has churches figure out how to relate to one another and traditional partners?