I Initially Wrote this as a Response on a Thread

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

I rest my case.

 

Preach.....out of curiosity, did you read Archangel's response to Webdog? If not, please read it at your 1st available.....

Thanks

 

I am not following you....perhaps Im tired. Its yours to embellish if you've got the mind to my brother. Please, just dont do anything out of hostility.

 

Preacher4truth, thank you. There are many dear folks I highly respect here who are Calvinist, although I disagree with the theology. I do not debate this issue with them, instead I try to ignore it as much as possible because I've seen firsthand what Calvinistic beliefs have done to members of my family. To me, it's a petty issue that divides churches, families, and friends. I want no part of it.

I agree with your post. The pride and arrogance I've seen from those claiming "Calvinism" both in my family and in my church make me stay away from the subject as much as possible. It literally makes me sick to my stomach. As to the Calvinist BB members, I haven't seen this attitude, quite possibly because I just stay away from those threads.

Some might call me a "3 point" Calvinist, others have told me if I'm not Calvinist then I'm Armenian. Personally, I don't care (or ascribe to) either label. I'd like to see C/A banned from BB completely!

 

I came here to learn and discuss doctrine but it is next to impossible. Every discussion turns into if you are not a 5 point calvinist then you are all wrong, or worse name calling. I can respect you even if I disagree with your doctrine. So many can't seem to do that. A Lot of people on here haven't learned that kindness causes people to listen and mean spiteful words turn then off.

 

Excuse me...little tired...whats C/A? Thanks

 

It stands for Calvinism/Armenian. The BB used to have an area just for those debates, but thankfully it was removed.

 

Your situation is very unfortunate. However, I don't think it is fair to say that "Calvinism" alone has divided churches, families, and friends.

Certainly there are some of my ilk that cannot abide Arminians. They are sadly mistaken. But, in my experience, it is usually the Arminians who make the biggest deal about someone being a Calvinist and then refuse to get along with them.

The vast majority of Calvinists I know are more than happy to fellowship with and work with Arminians.

So, while your experience is obviously painful and I'm sorry for you, it takes two sides to have a divisive disagreement and both sides have a part in it (not talking about the division in your family).

Hopefully, this situation in your family will be resolved.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

OK thanks....I get up real early & by 9pm I be dragon (call me Puff) LOL

Anyway, you may not want to hear this but I come from some fairly nice Calvinistic People from the UK. They go back to Wales in the 1600's & were part of the Baptist experiments in the country (Before Smith). By the time they got here, they participated in the new religion of Methodism but stayed away from that Englishman Wesley & followed a guy named George Whitefield & he was a Calvinist. These people worked hard grueling jobs in Coal & Iron Ore Mines in the old sod & in the new country. The 1st thing they did was built churches (even before erecting their own houses) & they served faithfully in those churches. They are known still for their singing & they were also rewarded by God with encounters from the Holy Ghost known as "Revival" ....if you ever studied it, you know what a glorious thing revival was. They would all gather in a meeting place, nightly praying & listening to sermons & then the singing....Oh, the singing of my people until they received the HS. Oh the Glorious Feeling of the Visitation!

Obviously I'm proud of that ....it caused a relative of mine to become an traveling preacher for his own people & because he knew both the Welsh & the English, he was valuable as a translator in many churches on Sunday (even Arminian-LOL)

Guess I'm just relating all this because even up to 50 yrs ago...these folks would go & help out one another, Methodist to Episcopal to Presbyterian to Baptist to Congregational ....they all helped one another & respected each others churches, theologies & Pastors. We need to do that again.

 

Thank you for your kind words, Archangel. It has been my experience that every Calvinist man (and some women) I know IN PERSON cannot just agree to get along--they must constantly bring it up, push it, argue, and debate at every single opportunity. It's not enough to say you disagree. No, they must FORCE the issue and harp on it, over and over, to try to persuade and convert others to their viewpoint. When that doesn't work, the name calling begins.

I'm sure there are exceptions, but I sure haven't found any. The KJVO folks I know are the same way about Bible versions. There are just some things on which people will never agree. We need to get over it and move on instead of getting hung up on non-essentials. Round and round and round. . .it's like a dog chasing its tail. It goes nowhere and only serves to keep the dog from doing other things.

 

Exactly.

Charles Spurgeon:

 

You're definitely correct about these things--but, I'd say there are Arminians that also do the same thing you notice Calvinists doing.

Many Calvinists are trying to "educate" or help the Arminians grow. I'd imagine Arminians do the same thing. I don't think the discussion is the problem. I think you hit the nail on the head when you say the problem is that it degenerates into name calling. This indeed is the root problem.

The problem of the degeneration into name calling and intentionally misrepresenting each other's position (on both sides) is shameful. It is conduct unbecoming a Christian. We as Christians are supposed to love one another and demonstrate that love to one another. Even if the discussion gets intense...love must still be demonstrated.

Maybe the Calvinists and maybe the Arminians will learn this...that there's something much more important than a person's respective system of theology. We must not be Calvinisers; Arminians must not be Arminianisers. We must be Christians first.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

That has been my experience as well.
Non-calvinistic saints in the church were called "dead wood".
Arminian this, pelagian that, etc. etc. etc.

 

Well said.:thumbsup:

 

It does not have to be that way. To my knowledge, there are maybe a half-dozen Calvinists in my church. Yet we have great fellowship with each other, with our pastor, and serve right alongside non-Calvinists.

Our views are well-known, as are those of non-Cals in the congregation. But we have given each other liberty in that area, because we value unity. Maybe we give too much liberty, but if you've ever been in a church fight, you'll bend over backwards to keep it from happening again.

That said, I can understand why it can be a contentious issue. I remember 40 years ago, when I discovered the Doctrines of Grace, I couldn't wait to ask my pastor about it, and talk about it with anybody who would listen. My pastor rolled his eyes when he saw me coming. But this was an exciting new discovery, and I wanted everybody to know what I had found.

It took a while for me to understand that not everybody received this doctrine as enthusiastically as I had. In fact, some were strangely antagonistic. I couldn't understand why they couldn't see this as clearly as I did.

As I matured, I learned that this attitude didn't win converts to Calvinism. I rarely bring up the subject, but I'm still willing to discuss it, if I'm asked about it.