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was the Kingdom Postponed or Eliminated From Isreal By God?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, May 24, 2011.

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  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    reformed/Covenant hold that isreal forfeited their spirtiual blessings/promises, and now the Church has supplanted/replaced her in plan of God...

    Jesus did NOT however say that to Apostles when asked if NOW Kingdom was restoring to Isreal, just that the times were in his fathers hand...

    In Acts , Peter seems to be saying that Isreal COULD have ushered in their Kingdom under Messiah, but rejected their King, so God has postoned Him coming back ,being and reserved in heavenlies, but once Jesus returns ALL THINGS shall be renewed again...

    Does all things refer to Isreal having the Kingdom given to her, under reign of coming back messiah?
    if yes, how can one hold to a reformed/Covenant position regarding these things?
     
    #1 JesusFan, May 24, 2011
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Again, blanket inaccurate statement. Ought to ASK what a position is rather than assume you know, JF. You don't.


    Reformed BAPTIST view of the Kingdom:
    • Jesus offered the kingdom to Israel
    • Rejected by Israel
    • Mystery (Mt 13) show present kingdom stage of sowing seed to Jew AND Gentile
    • Fulfillment SPIRITUALLY in invisible kingdom in hearts of regenerate (unless you are born again you cannot see this)
    • Fulfillment PHYSICALLY in visible kingdom still to come in the last days
    Don't mix "reformed" Presbyterian types with "reformed" Baptists (we ARE a "Baptist" Board, remember) ;)
     
    #2 Dr. Bob, May 24, 2011
  3. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    is there any differences between what a Reform baptist holds in these positions to what say a Dispensalism Baptist would hold to? or is pretty much same views?
     
    #3 JesusFan, May 24, 2011
  4. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Many reformed Baptists would be post mill, straight Presbyterian type on prophecy/kingdom and HATE dispensationalism. Most trained at Presbyterian schools.

    I just spoke at Midlands Sovereign Grace Conference that would be historic dispensational and all pre-mill, pre-trib. Most trained at Baptist schools.

    So GREAT variety for sure.

    I am "new covenant" and "progressive dispensational" which emphasizes covenants (but not the infant baptism stuff) as well as recognizing dispensations. Yeah, I'm a compromiser!! :)

    The 1644 and 1689 London Baptist Confessions do NOT make a big deal out of the kingdom/prophetic issues. Just says succinctly "Jesus will return" . . and leaves the rest to individuals.
     
    #4 Dr. Bob, May 24, 2011
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    So you would hold to some of the Confessional creeds, correct?
    And that there is 1 people of God, not as 'rigid" a Isreal/Church seperate bodies as trad dispy hold to, but that Isreal and all nations will be ruled over by Christ after his Second Coming?
     
    #5 JesusFan, May 24, 2011
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    English Baptists are confessional historically. First recorded Baptists in England in 1610. They formed the London Confession summarized the Word in a doctrinal statement (1644) and revised in 1677 (published after the Glorious Revolution in 1689) did a great job condensing.

    Israel is not the Church. The Church includes some of Israel and some Gentiles. Every promise to Israel (the nation) will be fulfilled to Israel (the nation), not the church (spiritual). We don't usurp or allegorize these promises.

    Yet we (church) ARE spiritually all "children" of Abraham. So there is a kinship.
     
    #6 Dr. Bob, May 24, 2011
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