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God Helps Those Who Help Themselves

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by sag38, Jul 5, 2011.

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  1. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    In another thread a poster suggested that many on this board believe this to be true. I for one am not a Calvinist and I certainly do not believe this statement to be true. Is there anyone on here who believes this? Please let us know. And, if you don't, please speak up.

    Some of our Calvinist brothers and sisters are always saying that they are being misrepresented and that Calvinism is misunderstood and maligned. And yet, an avowed Calvinist, a very intelligent one at that, hits below the belt with this untrue statement about non-cals.
     
    #1 sag38, Jul 5, 2011
  2. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    I certainly don't. It is just as stupid as the idea that Calvinist don't believe in evangelism.

    One thing I have learned recently is that Calvinists are as hard on their own (see the thread about Tom Ascol) as they are on us. Of course, we have said some stupid things about them too.
     
    #2 Tom Bryant, Jul 5, 2011
  3. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc New Member

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    Someone made that up and then claimed that God said it.
     
    #3 Jon-Marc, Jul 5, 2011
  4. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    Jon, I think it can be linked to Benjamin Franklin.
     
    #4 sag38, Jul 5, 2011
  5. revmwc

    revmwc Well-Known Member

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    from wiki:

    God helps those who help themselvesFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
    Look up god helps those who help themselves in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

    The phrase "God helps those who help themselves" is a popular motto which emphasizes the importance of self-initiative.

    The phrase originated in ancient Greece, occurring as the moral to one of Aesop's Fables, and later in the great tragedy authors of ancient Greek drama. It has been commonly attributed to Benjamin Franklin, however the modern English wording appears earlier in Algernon Sidney's work.

    It is mistaken by many to be a Bible quote, however the phrase does not occur in the Bible. Some Christians have criticized it as actually against the Bible's basic message of God's grace.
     
    #5 revmwc, Jul 5, 2011
  6. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

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    Scripture teaches that God helps the helpless.

    Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

    Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
     
    #6 Amy.G, Jul 5, 2011
  7. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Salvation speaking, I agree with the others on here. However, go and try to plant a garden. Tell God you want a bountious crop, and that you are trusting Him to bless it to grow. Now, don't till the ground, don't plant the seeds, and don't water the ground, and see what "bountious crop" you get. So, God does help us, if we trust in Him. Plant the seeds, and then ask God to bless it to grow, and see what happens.
     
    #7 convicted1, Jul 5, 2011
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Can you find that anywhere in scripture?
     
    #8 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 5, 2011
  9. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Is this directed at me, or someone else's post? I do not want to speak out of turn.
     
    #9 convicted1, Jul 5, 2011
  10. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    God Helps Those Who Help Themselves

    Is just one of many incorrect sayings that has crept into the lives of believers. To some it may seem insignificant, but like "one penny at a time" grows savings, when this belief is added to others it causers great error in doctrine and theology.
     
    #10 freeatlast, Jul 5, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2011
  11. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    No anyone....my point is anything said should be backed up with scripture. I have never found that " God helps blah Blah Blah " in scripture
     
    #11 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 5, 2011
  12. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Okay...."kewl beans"!! :thumbs:
     
    #12 convicted1, Jul 5, 2011
  13. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Scripture teaches that God helps the helpless.

    Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

    Matthew 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
    --------------------------------------------------------

    I think Amy gave the correct answer, and included the correct scripture......and there are many others.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
    #13 Jim1999, Jul 5, 2011
  14. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    I think Jesus said it best. "Blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven."

    But, my prime motive for starting this thread is to challenge the false notion that myself and other non-Calvinists some how helped ourselves to Jesus as if we did something to earn salvation. I did nothing to earn salvation. God called and I responded. For myself I have trouble fully embracing "limited atonement" and "irresistible grace."

    To me "all" means "all." And, why would Stephen accuse the Jews of resisting the Holy Spirit if they weren't, well, resisting the Holy Spirit? Just a couple of examples of why I have trouble running full blown through the TULIPS.
     
    #14 sag38, Jul 5, 2011
  15. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
    #15 quantumfaith, Jul 5, 2011
  16. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Oh boy (shakes head) :( Are you intentionally trying to be antagonistic?
     
    #16 Earth Wind and Fire, Jul 5, 2011
  17. John Toppass

    John Toppass Active Member
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    Wow! Using another old statement "That is like the pot calling the kettle black"

    Scripture does say this,

    2 Thess 3:10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.


    it is not talking about the helpless, it is talking about those who are able and do not help themselves.
     
    #17 John Toppass, Jul 5, 2011
  18. sag38

    sag38 Active Member

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    Oh boy (shakes head) Are you intentionally trying to be antagonistic?

    Antagonistic? Am I not allowed to ask a question or to state my reasons for not accepting Calvinism? Am I not allowed to point out a misnomer?
     
    #18 sag38, Jul 5, 2011
  19. corndogggy

    corndogggy Active Member
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    Benjamin Franklin said/repeated it because he was a Deist, and most Deists do not believe that God intermingles in the affairs of humans... they believe that the universe was set in motion then left alone. So basically he was saying to not helplessly wait around for God's help, that you need to get up and do it yourself.
     
    #19 corndogggy, Jul 28, 2011
  20. Fred's Wife

    Fred's Wife Member

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    My mother used to say that all the time. My response was always "If we can all help ourselves, why do we need God's help?"

    I agree with Amy G. But there is a "gray area"...we need to acknowledge that we need God's help. In Matthew 11:28-30 Jesus invites us to come to Him and take His yoke. We need to do the "coming and taking of His yoke" in order to for Jesus to do the "giving of His rest" to us.

    Luke 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

    Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
     
    #20 Fred's Wife, Jul 28, 2011
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