Robert Snow
New Member
Freeatlast, can you show one commentary that backs up your assertion that 1Jn. is dealing with gnosticism?
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meaning of Lord?
- Thread starter nodak
- Start date
Freeatlast, can you show one commentary that backs up your assertion that 1Jn. is dealing with gnosticism?
freeatlast
New Member
Jamieson, Fausset & Brown speaks of Docetism which is akin to Gnosticism. MacArthur teaches it is dealing with the false teaching of Gnostics and Docetism. Wuest teaches the book is dealing with the Docetic Gnostics.Freeatlast, can you show one commentary that backs up your assertion that 1Jn. is dealing with gnosticism?
Robert Snow
New Member
Jamieson, Fausset & Brown speaks of Docetism which is akin to Gnosticism. MacArthur teaches it is dealing with the false teaching of Gnostics and Docetism. Wuest teaches the book is dealing with the Docetic Gnostics.
Thank you,I will check it out.
I feel that the main difference you are having with this disagreement with most here on the BB is more a matter of semantics and definitions than anything else, but we will see.
Thank you,I will check it out.
I feel that the main difference you are having with this disagreement with most here on the BB is more a matter of semantics and definitions than anything else, but we will see.
No, more than merely semantics !
fal thinks that the Apostle John was adressing the Gnostics to repent/confess their sins, while the Apostle was addressing saints with that admonition!
He also fails to address just what the purpose of 1 John is, namely, that saints are commanded by God to live lives worthy of their calling now in Christ, strive to more like jesus, but will sin and lose their fellowship, hence need to confess to God those commited sins!
freeatlast
New Member
No, more than merely semantics !
fal thinks that the Apostle John was adressing the Gnostics to repent/confess their sins, while the Apostle was addressing saints with that admonition!
He also fails to address just what the purpose of 1 John is, namely, that saints are commanded by God to live lives worthy of their calling now in Christ, strive to more like jesus, but will sin and lose their fellowship, hence need to confess to God those commited sins!
No John was trying to keep the false teaching from taking hold and if any who were there followed the Gnostic teaching for them to repent.
No John was trying to keep the false teaching from taking hold and if any who were there followed the Gnostic teaching for them to repent.
Wrong!
Contex of the letter, from start to finish, is John addressing the saints there, encourage them to maintain their fellowship/walk with God by not falling into sin, but if they do sin, to confess that to god for cleansing and to keep fellowship pure with the father thru jesus His Son!
freeatlast
New Member
Wrong!
Contex of the letter, from start to finish, is John addressing the saints there, encourage them to maintain their fellowship/walk with God by not falling into sin, but if they do sin, to confess that to god for cleansing and to keep fellowship pure with the father thru jesus His Son!
NOPE! John is writing to combat the false teachings of the Gnostics.
NOPE! John is writing to combat the false teachings of the Gnostics.
Problem with that view is that John tells us at the start, that his purpose is to write about having /keeping fellowship with God, and tht the Gnostics were NOT even in the churches to any extent yet at time of his writing!
glfredrick
New Member
NOPE! John is writing to combat the false teachings of the Gnostics.
Over and over again, John writes to his "children" and uses the term "we" in addressing the people to whom he wrote what we call his first epistle.
The internal evidence is overwhelming!
1 Jo 1:4 And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.
1Jo 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1Jo 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
...
1Jo 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1Jo 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
...
1Jo 2:12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake. 1Jo 2:13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father. 1Jo 2:14 I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
...
1Jo 2:18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. 1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
...
1Jo 2:24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. 1Jo 2:25 And this is the promise that he made to us [fn]--eternal life. 1Jo 2:26 I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
Over and over again, John writes to his "children" and uses the term "we" in addressing the people to whom he wrote what we call his first epistle.
The internal evidence is overwhelming!
1 Jo 1:4 And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.
1Jo 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1Jo 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
...
1Jo 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1Jo 2:2 He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
...
1Jo 2:12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake. 1Jo 2:13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father. 1Jo 2:14 I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
...
1Jo 2:18 Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. 1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
...
1Jo 2:24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. 1Jo 2:25 And this is the promise that he made to us [fn]--eternal life. 1Jo 2:26 I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you.
Where the Gnostics even yet to the point of being evolved/advanced enough as a group to be in the local churches this early?
glfredrick
New Member
Where the Gnostics even yet to the point of being evolved/advanced enough as a group to be in the local churches this early?
Many do not think so, though Gnostic-type philosophy had been present in the world for centuries. The group called Gnostic in a New Testament sense did not develop fully until about the latter half of the 2nd century, long after Scripture had been written and sealed.
Most of the early issues handled by the Apostles were more of a abbarant Jewish practice than Gnostic practice, though the rudiments were there.
I highly recommend Ronald Nash's book, "The Gospel and the Greeks," that I cited above. It may be one of the more accessable studies on the issue. I knew Ron Nash personally, and he was adamant about what he discovered and wrote on contra the Tubingen School, who, without any actual research, found an evil spirit or influence under every rock (or word of Scripture).