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Featured Beer Drinking In Germany

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by preacher4truth, Feb 23, 2012.

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  1. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    This week I listened to Dr. Erwin Lutzer answer a question on his broadcast from a person interested in discussing alcohol consumption. The question had details about her church which has some problems with their statement of faith and constitution/new members agreement as far as new members agreeing to not use alcohol in any form at any time, or they cannot join the church (in good conscience at least). The pastor of this church believes alcohol use is permissable, as long as people aren't getting drunk, or as long as they aren't drunkards. Some in the church agree with him, while others do not, so they are having a rift.

    Dr. Lutzer illustrated his response by talking about his visits to Germany. While visiting there, Dr. Lutzer talked of German Christians as drinking beer, and often, never thinking about it as wrong, and, that these Christians were devoted to God, and are spirit-filled believers who live for God.

    Can their stance be true and right in your opinion?

    It seems they enjoyed beer daily. A good couple of beers daily at a sitting, or more, can certainly cause one to get 'buzzed' yet these drink it without conscience and I cannot believe they don't get quite 'merry' in so doing. :)

    Has culture in the US caused unfounded guilt upon Christians for consuming alcohol?
     
    #1 preacher4truth, Feb 23, 2012
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Yes and no.

    Christians have to acknowledge the culture in which they live if they are going to be a witness and we live in a culture of excess – so maybe the guilt is not unfounded. But I believe it is a matter between the believer and God. I do not believe the church should present it as a sin, but warnings concerning drinking are not unfounded or unbiblical.

    (Spurgeon’s cigars also come to mind).
     
    #2 JonC, Feb 23, 2012
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    unfounded guilt..... Pray tell from who (or is it whom)? :rolleyes:
     
    #3 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 23, 2012
  4. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    A friend of mine who pastored for several years in Germany told me that being drunk was considered taboo and the person thought to be stupid.

    My personal experience has been in areas where there is the most taboo there is also the most abuse. When I lived in the south I saw far more alcohol in the refrigerators of Christians there than when I lived in wine country.

    The way to find an Amish home is a small vineyard and lack of power lines.

    I would abstain from almost anything that might create a roadblock to people following me as I follow Jesus. Eating too much can cause another a problem. It bothers me when I try to listen to a fat preacher as he huffs and puffs. I want to get him out to run and out from the table. Personally I do not think there should be one fat preacher in any pulpit. When was the last time we heard a fat preacher talk about abstaining from alcohol also talk about gluttony and being fat. My wife works in a hospital and she has mentioned about how many things are associated with being fat and over weight. It is huge. It is society that pays for such obesity.
     
    #4 gb93433, Feb 23, 2012
  5. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Well, it certainly wasn't from you! :laugh: :thumbsup:
     
    #5 preacher4truth, Feb 23, 2012
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    True cigars are filthy & disgusting..... I would substitute with marijuana in a second. After all, look at all the medicinal advantages of pot over tobacco. :laugh:
     
    #6 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2012
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Yes well, whats an AA meeting between friends? :laugh:
     
    #7 Earth Wind and Fire, Feb 23, 2012
  8. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Yes, absolutely yes.

    Well, here we go again...
     
    #8 preachinjesus, Feb 23, 2012
  9. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Lutzer didn't mention the recent resignation of the head of Germany's Evangelical Church for drunk driving at five times the legal limit, did he?
     
    #9 Jerome, Feb 23, 2012
  10. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I agree.
     
    #10 preacher4truth, Feb 23, 2012
  11. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Begging the question?
     
    #11 preacher4truth, Feb 23, 2012
  12. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Absolutely, unequivocally- YES.
     
    #12 Luke2427, Feb 23, 2012
  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Germany’s DWI laws are stricter than here in America. I lived there for several years, I don’t know if I’d consider their view of drunkenness as taboo. While frowned upon, there was an awful lot of it to go around.
     
    #13 JonC, Feb 23, 2012
  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    And the beer was good too.
     
    #14 JonC, Feb 23, 2012
  15. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I agree- and I'm a big boy.

    I think the answer is that all preachers, because they are all humans, have strengths and weaknesses- all of them have areas they fall down on the job in.

    The guy who runs a marathon and does not sit down to study and shoots from the hip most sundays is more disqualified than the fat preacher who studies 30 hours a week.

    The key is to NOT condemn unecessarily. If the fat preacher does not condemn other people for their weaknesses in areas where he may be strong, he is a lot easier to listen to.

    Luther was fat. Spurgeon was fat. Moody was fat.

    But gluttony is at least as great an evil as drunkenness.

    God can use all sorts.
     
    #15 Luke2427, Feb 23, 2012
  16. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    :thumbsup:

    And God calls, uses, in spite of our weaknesses.
     
    #16 preacher4truth, Feb 23, 2012
  17. HAMel

    HAMel Well-Known Member
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    Reminds me of the story of D.L Moody meeting Spurgeon for the first time. Moody, a large robust man was greet at the door by Spurgeon smoking a cigar. Moody went nuts asking, "What are you doing with that...?" Spurgeon, with his finger poked at Moody's stomach and replied, "The same thing you are doing with that....!"

    ...or so the story goes.

    People are certainly too quick on the draw to find fault in others..., in my most humble opinion.
     
    #17 HAMel, Feb 23, 2012
  18. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    Yep..here we go again with those like want to justify the sin of consuming alcohol doing so by condemning fat preachers. It's like clockwork.
     
    #18 matt wade, Feb 23, 2012
  19. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    So the Bible is a lie? Timothy did not drink wine for his stomach? Jesus did not drink wine and turn water into wine. It was just an illusion?
     
    #19 gb93433, Feb 23, 2012
  20. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    So the thread began in order to condemn fat and/or gluttonous preachers in order to justify the drinking of alcohol? :laugh: :laugh:

    Jesus consumed wine, but I'd bet He didn't over eat, nor was He fat. I say this since you want to 'go there.' :) :thumbsup:
     
    #20 preacher4truth, Feb 23, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2012
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