1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Nouthetic Counseling

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by freeatlast, May 5, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    There has been a couple long threads about "mental illness". I am convinced that the only Christian way to deal with what is being called mental illness is through Nouthetic Counseling.
    If you are not familiar with it you can read about it here;
    http://www.nouthetic.org/nouthetic-counseling/what-is-nouthetic-counseling.html
    I would add this. When I use the term mental illness I am not speaking of those who have become old and loosing their ability to process things, or people who have tumors or in accidents and have brain damage. I am always speaking of those who because of life issues start having difficulty dealing with life or conducting themselves in a controlled manner and I base that belief on scripture.
     
    #1 freeatlast, May 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2012
  2. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    1
    What amazes me is the multitude of Scripture we are given that deals with practically everything that life throws at us.

    Yet so many would rather discard the Scripture and accept "bandaid" solutions.
     
  3. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    10,295
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes Fred there is no question that the ways of the Lord are growing ever less popular in the church as it continues to turn to the world for answers to lifes problems.
     
  4. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    11,384
    Likes Received:
    944
    Faith:
    Baptist
    OK, freeatlast, here's your big chance to convince us all that confronting the sin in people's life is the only way of curing mental illnesses.

    You just said and I have quoted that you believe this is the only way to deal with these problems.

    The link that you provided said that this type of counseling is three-fold: confront, show concern, and change. The reason for change is as follows as I am quoting from the article.

    OK, here we go.

    The woman at my church that I mentioned. She's a Godly believer and demonstrates much faith. She is a diagnosed paranoid/schizophrenic and is bi-polar. She occasionally hears voices and goes through bouts of depression and euphoria. She does get counseling and she takes meds. She sings in the choir, but does not work with children unless as an assistant to a competent leader.

    How would you present this nouthetic-counseling to her? What sins would you confront her about? What in her Christian life is "failing to meet biblical requirements" that has led to her schizophrenia and other mental issues?

    Tell us how pointing out her failures as a Christian will make the schizophrenia go away.

    I believe in competent Christian counseling. I believe in those three things that the article mentioned. I also believe in meds. I believe in faith. I believe in having accountability partners. And I believe in compassion Christians who will confront when necessary and who will comfort and love when necessary.

    I'm anxious to hear what you have to say.

     
  5. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    11,384
    Likes Received:
    944
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Fred - no one is discarding scripture. Stop acting so passive-aggressively. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  6. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    1
    Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

    Question: How can one have the mind of Christ when one is souped up on mind altering drugs?

    Did Christ take mind altering drugs? or did He rely on His Father to strengthen Him when the world was pressing? (Hint: see Matthew 26:36-44)
     
  7. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    11,384
    Likes Received:
    944
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My schizophrenic church-sister definitely has the mind of Christ. She is a staunch believer despite the voices that she hears and bouts of depression and mania. She has great faith and relies heavily on God for strength.

    She also relies on meds.

    I don't see how the two are in opposition to each other.

    I take brain-altering drugs. I am on the strongest dose allowable to control seizures. Does it interfere with my thinking sometimes? Yes. Would I be dead without the meds? Yes. Are there side-effects that don't like dealing with? Yes. Do I place my faith in God above all doctors and all meds? Yes. Can I live with meds and still have the mind of Christ? Yes.
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,377
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    GOD BLESS YOU & I also like the cookie reference.....I feel the same way about Near Beer!
     
  9. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    4
    Fred, you do realize that one of the gospels was written by a doctor don't you? He was a Greek and would have used the common herbs, oils, and spices that were used in medicine at the time. Some of them would have had psychotropic properties.
     
  10. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    1
    I hear what you are saying, SaggyWoman, that a person can take mind altering drugs and still have the mind of Christ.

    Now provide some Scripture that tells us we can take mind altering drugs.

    My Bible tells me Casting all your cares on Him for He careth for you.

    So far, no Scripture has been given to prove God approves of mind altering drugs.

    And of course, since no one is able to provide Scripture to prove God approves of mind altering drugs, many resort to ad hominem attacks and nonsense. Doesn't help their stance at all.
     
  11. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    1
    I know Luke was a Physician, AmyG. Now, prove to me that he prescribed mind altering drugs to his patients.
     
  12. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    4
    Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

    1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
     
  13. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    1
    Phil 2:5 "let this mind be in you....." is only the introduction of what is being said. It is primarily talking about how Jesus presented Himself; equal with God........

    No man in his right mind makes this claim. We are but sinners redeemed by grace.......we walk as straight as we can, but even we have human short-comings.

    Those with mental incapacities are worthy of treatment, and as the mentally deficient chap at Spurgeon's door said, "I am just a fool and nothing at all, but Jesus Christ is my all and all."

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  14. Arbo

    Arbo Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,942
    Likes Received:
    1
    You need to check your meds. SaggyWoman hasn't posted on this thread.
     
  15. Amy.G

    Amy.G New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    13,103
    Likes Received:
    4
    Well, I don't have his original prescription pad, but common sense and little study of history should satisfy you.
     
  16. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    1
    Proverbs 31:4-5 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

    As kings, it is not permitted that we drink wine and strong drink.

    Paul's advice to Timothy was not for a mind altering drug, but for a stomach ailment.

    By the way, neither of those passages was written by the Physician Luke. Where's the passage that tells us Luke prescribed mind altering drugs to his patients?
     
  17. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    1
    Meant Scarlett O.

    Meds had nothing to do wit the mistake. My PC automatically completes some of the names and I guess Saggy's name popped up first.
     
  18. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    11,384
    Likes Received:
    944
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Fred, I'm not trying to get you to change your mind. I just want you to understand another person's point of view. I believe whole-heartedly in casting our cares upon the Lord. I just don't see how medications are in opposition to that.

    And, no, the Bible doesn't say, "Takest thou tegretal for thy seizures".

    But the Bible also doesn't mention bus ministries, giraffes, Mt. Vesuvius, Tylenol, rubbing alcohol, Vaseline, or Corn Flakes.

    I can't dismiss a viable method of relieving an illness or the symptoms of an illness with medications merely because the Bible doesn't precribe us to.

    I also believe that far too many drugs are out there and pushed by the drug-makers for greed's sake. That's not going to make me dismiss competent doctors and quality and proven meds. It's just going to make me be very careful.
     
  19. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    1
    My response to many of these objections is that I live in 2012,,,, not OT or NT times.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  20. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    1
    If the majority of people today jumped off a cliff to their death, would you say that it the thing to do?

    Maybe we should live in OT or NT times. Modern times sure have replaced many things of God with worldly reasoning excusing sin by blaming it on illnesses.

    Jeremiah 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
     
    #20 Steadfast Fred, May 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2012
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...