Featured Is There Really Power in Your Prayer?

Matthew 18:20 actually says "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

The only part of the passage your quoted that is somewhat acceptable is "And when two or three of you are together because of me, you can be sure that I'll be there." What's up with the rest of the nonsense that your "bible" puts in there?

 

We also have to deal with the verse before that, Matthew 18:19

I understand that God answers prayer. I am quite uncomfortable with the idea that there is "power" in prayer. The power resides with the Creator of the universe.

We pray because the Lord told us to ask for what we want. But I don't like any implication that we can command God with our prayers.

Remember the story of Jesus' encounter with Bartimaeus? Jesus said Bart was blind for that moment, when He would display His power in him. Did Jesus know in advance that he would heal Bart? Of course. Even so, Jesus made Bart ask. "What do you want?" "Lord, I want my sight."

Bart's request was not for Jesus' benefit. It was for Bartimaeus to teach us all of our total dependence on God.

I do believe God answers all prayer. Sometimes the answer is no. Sometimes yes. Sometimes, not now.

 

The context is church discipline

 

Exactly. Isn't this verse simply stating that God will honor whatever decision two or more elders make when they do so in prayer, regarding a church discipline matter?

This is probably one of the most misused verses in the Bible.

Back to the power of prayer.

I have studied prayer and still have questions about it. For instance, will God actually change His will if we ask Him to? If I have terminal cancer, and two million people hold hands and pray for my healing, is God going to change His mind and heal me? Or, if it is my time to go, will God take me regardless?

It is my opinion that we Christians misuse prayer more often than not. I believe that the purpose of prayer is for us to find God's will, not try to change it.

I don't believe that prayer changes God, i believe it changes people.

John

 

BTW Dude, I was given a copy of the Message a few years ago. I spent one evening reading it, and the next day it went into a dumpster several miles from my house. It was more like reading a novel than a text.

I use KJ at church, but have several versions for study....but the Message is not one of them. Perhaps a more credible version would be more appropriate.

Matthew 18:20 has nothing to do with the general prayers of Christians. It is about church discipline only. There are many verses that teach about prayer in general, but that is not the truth that this passage is talking about.

WoF people use this passage as some sort of magical ritual, thinking that if two or more of them touch and agree on anything that God is bound to grant thier wishes (like God is some kind of a geenie or something).....but that is not the purpose of this scripture. It is merely saying that God will honor the decisions of elders regarding church discipline when the decision is made in prayer.

Like i said, this is one of the most misused scriptures in the Bible.

John

 

I think the Message is appropriately titled for the times we live in.

The Mess Age.

 

Jas 5:16b The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Prayer does change things....for who? Usually the prayer. Can we see results from our prayers? Yes. My ladies SS class did a 9 month study on prayer. During that time we kept prayer journals for 1 year (most still keep them now, several years later). At the end of that year we added up the answered prayers...over 3,000 answered prayers. We then looked at what that meant. Had we changed God's mind, was it because we were praying in God's Will, was there some magic formula we'd hit upon?

We discovered what it meant was that God honored our faithfulness in prayer by allowing us to see the answers to so many of our prayer requests.

And P.S., Bro Dude, if you PM me your address I'll be happy to send you a Bible so you don't have to use The Message....

 

IF you have the faith of a Mustard Seed....

The Power resides in the object of faith, GOD....

 

There is no question that the Bible instructs us to pray constantly, especially for one another. And there is no question that God blesses us when we acknowledge Him in prayer.

When i did a study about prayer I discovered that my prayers were selfish, and that i was asking God to conform His will to mine, instead of me conforming to His.

When i started praying for Him to change me instead of me changing Him things got a whole lot better for me, and prayers were answered.

Johnraying:

 

AMEN and AMEN!!! Prayers are often answered and we don't even know it, because they weren't answered with the answer we wanted!

 

Yes.

God does not change.

Let's go further. If God has ordained all that will come to pass, why pray (other than the fact that God told us to pray)?

Because there are some things that God has ordained to come to pass in answer to prayer. So if the prayer doesn't happen, the answer doesn't happen.

This example is from an old blog run by Jim Bublitz called Old Truth:

So pray. There's a good reason Jesus told us "ye have not because you ask not," and "ask and ye shall receive."

We can argue over whether God simply knows the future or decrees the future, and that prayer is the trigger. It's irrelevant to this discussion. Pray because we're told to pray, and because Paul tells us the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.

 

I did not mean to get you upset, please forgive me. I think I was doing the right thing by pointing out that this scripture has nothing to do with the power of prayer nor God answering prayer.

In your OP you referred to the scripture a "The power of two", and that is just a completely false interpretation of the subject of this scripture.

It's not about prayer at all, it is about church discipline. It says that when there is a matter of church discipline that if two people (church elders) come together in prayer and seek gudaince in the matter, that God will honor their decision (bind in heaven what is bound on Earth).

It is not a broad general statement about prayer and has absolutely nothing to do with the power of prayer or God answering prayer, is is strictly talking about church discipline and God honoring a decision made in prayer.

While I do believe that God commands us to be in prayer without ceasing, and that prayer brings results, and that there are lots of scriptures to back up prayer, this isn't one of them.

This is simply not about prayer.

Dude, this scripture gets misinterpreted everyday, and I don't think I am wrong for trying to correct that when i can. In fact I believe all Christians are obligated to do so.

As far as the Message, Peterson's misinterpretation of this passage is a good example of how he let his own beliefs outweigh the truth of the scripture. Read the other versions you own, and some commentaries that go with it, and you will see that Peterson went with the misinformed world view that this scripture is about the "power of prayer" and not church discipline.

I do agree with the previous poster that pointed out that our prayers have no power at all....the power lies in the One that hears our prayers.

John

 

The power is in the One who is being prayed to. Prayer is never to manipulate God but to come into line with God's will. If we are praying in faith the prayer will be answered. The problem is that "praying in faith" is a much misunderstood issue.

 

Just for everyone's information, this is actually Matt. 18:18-20.

For comparison:
"18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." (KJV)

But the Message "translator" (I use the term very loosely here) seems to have mixed it up with Matt. 5:37--"But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

Carry on. :type:

 

Why diss The Message paraphrase? Just look at it as a vivacious contemporary sermonette on every verse of the Bible!

 

For Christianettes? :smilewinkgrin:

 

I think more should take it upon themselves to interact with the Word on a level deep enough to "retell" it in their own words or in a way that captures the modern reader with the language/format he is familiar with. As in John 5:39-40, eternal life is not in the words of God but in the Word of God. That said, it's obvious that such paraphrases have more of our own interpretations than actual translations do, but nevertheless magnify the Savior behind the words.