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Muslims exempt from Obamacare?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), May 14, 2012.

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  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    This charge was made in another thread.

    This ought to be a simple one to prove. Where in the health care bill are Muslims, or any other group, specifically exempted? A simple link to that section of the bill will suffice.
     
    #1 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 14, 2012
  2. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Not necessarily - with anywhere from 2000 - 5,000 pages, it could be very easy to hide info - ie "see this section, refer to that section, in conjuction....."

    Not saying it is in there, but with all that leagalise....
     
    #2 Salty, May 14, 2012
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Surely, with it being stated as fact somebody has something to verify it as true. Conservatives would never post facts without evidence. We don't play that game. Only liberals do that.
     
    #3 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 14, 2012
  4. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire New Member

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    This might help;
    http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/exemptions.asp
     
    #4 Bob Alkire, May 14, 2012
  5. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    I don't care what snopes says. Ever. However, there are a number of religious exemptions in this bill. Singling out Muslims would not be fair. But if I remember correctly the issue that raised so many hackles was not about a Muslim exemption but the issue of "Dhimmitide" wording in the bill.
     
    #5 mandym, May 14, 2012
  6. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Okay, all we need then is a link to show the page where it appears?

    HERE is the pdf file.

    I went to page 107 where this clause is supposed to appear and am missing it. Here is the text from that page

     
    #6 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2012
  7. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    "We" don't need anything. I don't care one way or the other. "You" may want it. But no one needs it.
     
    #7 mandym, May 14, 2012
  8. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    This pretty much sums up your position concerning the truth.
     
    #8 Robert Snow, May 14, 2012
  9. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Section 5000A

    (2) RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS-

    `(A) RELIGIOUS CONSCIENCE EXEMPTION- Such term shall not include any individual for any month if such individual has in effect an exemption under section 1311(d)(4)(H) of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act which certifies that such individual is a member of a recognized religious sect or division thereof described in section 1402(g)(1) and an adherent of established tenets or teachings of such sect or division as described in such section.

    http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act/Title_I/Subtitle_F/Part_I


    THE BEST COMMENTARY I COULD FIND TO EXPLAIN WHAT THIS MEANS: <snipped>
    http://pjmedia.com/blog/obamacares-muslim-exemption/
     
    #9 LadyEagle, May 14, 2012
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    So it doesn't exempt Muslims but has a general religious exemption clause and does not include Muslim dhimmitude. It is more like the Social Security exemption that ordained ministers can claim if it is a religious conviction.

    People for distracted by this kind of stuff last time around. There are many more solid reasons not to support the president.
     
    #10 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2012
  11. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    Interpret it as you will.
     
    #11 LadyEagle, May 15, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2012
  12. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Obamacare, in toto is at the top of the list.
     
    #12 carpro, May 15, 2012
  13. Don

    Don Well-Known Member
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    Actually, you need to re-look at section 1402(g)(1). No, it doesn't specifically identify Muslims, or dhimmitude, or any particular religion. But as the article Lady Eagle quoted points out, it recognizes that certain religions have certain aversions to certain types of health care. In this case (and I haven't been able to actually confirm this yet), there is the statement that islamic law prohibits insurance; thus, 1402(g)(1) allows muslims to be exempt.

    Granted, 1402(g)(1) also allows exemption for those religious sects that don't believe in actual health care, and would rather pray their way to good health. But it has to be a "recognized" religion, with "recognition" of that particular practice/belief. Your standard Christian, buddhist, etc. doesn't seem to be covered by 1402(g)(1) because we can't claim those recognitions; and thus, the list of religions that are exempted becomes very small; with the religion with the most practicing people being muslim.
     
    #13 Don, May 15, 2012
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    There is no evidence that Islam is exempted, especially has an entire religion. We simply can't take this clause and say that it is a Muslim 'out' clause.

    Let's oppose or favour Omamacare on its merits or warknesses, not because a wacko right wing source wants us to believe it is pro Muslim.
     
    #14 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 15, 2012
  15. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Totally correct. There is enough in the bill to oppose it, especially the forced purchase of insurance.
     
    #15 saturneptune, May 15, 2012
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Does anybody have any facts to support that all Muslims can claim this exemption? Islam is like Christianity in that it is a general term when used that way. There are many sects and denominations with the general title 'Islam.'

    Some 'Christian' sects will apparently be exempt. Chances are that some 'Muslim' groups will qualify the same way.

    When we debate this issues if we cannot debate them on the facts instead of conjecture maybe we don't have as strong a case as we claim. The facts should be enough to sway people without this kind of guessing, fearmongering, and half truths.
     
    #16 NaasPreacher (C4K), May 16, 2012
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