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Featured What does AGAPE love look like?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Catalyst, Jul 11, 2012.

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  1. Catalyst

    Catalyst New Member

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    Most call it God's Love.

    So, how do you define the word that will fit consistent in scripture without having to change the words?

    How do works factor into Agape?
     
    #1 Catalyst, Jul 11, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2012
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    IMO, KJV does the word much justice when it translates it as 'charity'.

    Thinking of others.
     
    #2 kyredneck, Jul 11, 2012
  3. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy Well-Known Member
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    Agape is love that is unconditional, divine, unmerited, self-sacrificing, active, volitional, and thoughtful.
     
    #3 Crabtownboy, Jul 11, 2012
  4. Catalyst

    Catalyst New Member

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    IMO you are absolutely correct. And I love to tease the KJV ONLY crowd over their holy book. But give credit where it's due.

    Another interesting thing, if you find what PERFECT met at the time the KJV was written, the verses today that have perfect, in most translations, maturity in others, will make more sense. !!!! TY for your post.
     
    #4 Catalyst, Jul 11, 2012
  5. Catalyst

    Catalyst New Member

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    AND RAPE, and things that ARE BAD TO LOVE BECAUSE THEY ARE AGAINST GOD.
     
    #5 Catalyst, Jul 11, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2012
  6. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    I have believed that to be true for many years! Is that the hillbilly in us?:thumbs:
     
    #6 OldRegular, Jul 11, 2012
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Timothy and Barbara Friberg in their Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament include volition in their definition of agape, and I agree. In other words, agape is a love you decide on. You don't love from emotion, you don't love because the other person is wonderful or handsome or beautiful. You love them because you decide to do so.

    This is how God can love us "while we were yet sinners." There is nothing in our depraved hearts that attracts Him, and nothing we can do to please Him. He loves us because it is His will to do so.
     
    #7 John of Japan, Jul 11, 2012
  8. Catalyst

    Catalyst New Member

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    Excellent! I love adding volition to this word's definition. I have a different way of defining it, but with the same thinking they have, and the volition angle will add a dimension to it. Excellent post. I wasn't expecting to get good answers, I was trying to bait the catholic bashers on here to show them summthin. :)


    John, riddle a poor gai jin this, the last parable of matt 25, the sheep and the goats, the goats know the shepherd like the sheep, but the sheep do the works and go to heaven.... in your view, is this a good example of agapao?
     
    #8 Catalyst, Jul 11, 2012
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    But you didn't. You got the opposite.
    What you fail to realize is that you simply shoot yourself in the foot.
    Those that you call "Catholic bashers" are not "Catholic haters." My entire extended family is Catholic. I don't hate them. I love them, and with that same self-sacrificial love that God has given me. I pray for them. But I detest, even hate, the godless and wicked religion that they are caught up in.
     
    #9 DHK, Jul 11, 2012
  10. Catalyst

    Catalyst New Member

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    Defensive much?

    Had I thought you were a catholic hater, I would have said so. Do you think I hold back my thoughts and use passive aggressive subterfuge in my comments? I think I am pretty transparent and consistently honest. I even admit when I am wrong.

    When I conclude you are a catholic hater, IF I conclude that, I would be very UNAGAPAO if I didn't talk with you about it. Get us/make us a room. Its a great opportunity for you to show me I'm wrong.
     
    #10 Catalyst, Jul 11, 2012
  11. Catalyst

    Catalyst New Member

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    Dhk, in your most enlightened opinion, can you agapao without works?
     
    #11 Catalyst, Jul 11, 2012
  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    By very definition, love is the self-sacrificial giving of oneself. It involves the will, is decisive, and therefore must result in works.
    There are other words for "love" in the Bible, which are more accurately translated as "lust." Works are not necessarily involved there as the sin is committed in the mind. But that is not true with the word agape.
     
    #12 DHK, Jul 11, 2012
  13. Catalyst

    Catalyst New Member

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    Ok, not sure the other words that translate as lust but the rest is ok. Eros would be the lust, phileo for brotherly/cammaraderie, storge for mother's love..... but details....

    And, do you agree with Paul that it is through works a person matures spiritually?
     
    #13 Catalyst, Jul 11, 2012
  14. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Sanctification is a work of the Holy Spirit, which again results in works.
    Sanctification is both a standing given at salvation, and a process. It is a maturing process as the Holy Spirit which indwells the believer works in and through him to do of His good will.
     
    #14 DHK, Jul 11, 2012
  15. Catalyst

    Catalyst New Member

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    Sanctification is a word. Its used many ways, both for atonement/salvation and maturation. We are good there. The Spirit maturing you/taking you through sanctification doesn't exclude that works mature you. Do you agree woth Paul that through works you are matured? To full maturity, I should add, using Paul's words.
     
    #15 Catalyst, Jul 12, 2012
  16. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I do think so. It can be hard to love the poor ("naked") and sick unless they are already loved ones. You must decide to do so.
     
    #16 John of Japan, Jul 12, 2012
  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Actually, storge is more natural love in general than "mother's love" in particular. It only occurs in compounds in the NT, such as philostorgos, "kindly affectioned" in Rom. 12:10.
     
    #17 John of Japan, Jul 12, 2012
  18. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    There is a huge flaw in your thinking here. To pigeon-hole agape and say it cannot mean "God's Love" because in the LXX as "rape" (which, by the way, you haven't shown chapter and verse) is to throw context out the window.

    In the LXX, ἀγάπη is used in a very general, catch-all sense for love in all its aspects. No satisfactory answer has been given for this amongst LXX scholars that I've read.

    The one thing that is pointed out--and this is the hallmark of language study--is that context is the primary determinant of meaning.

    So, to consider ἀγάπη to be unusable to describe God's love in one or more contexts simply because it describes "rape" in another is to do violence to the text and to language study in general.

    The Archangel
     
    #18 The Archangel, Jul 12, 2012
  19. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Good post. :thumbsup:

    I think he's wrong that agape is used for rape in the LXX. I can't find that. It might be that he means the "love" Amnon had for Tamar, who he raped (2 Sam. 13). But agape and agapao are not used for the act of rape, just for Amnon's feelings.
     
    #19 John of Japan, Jul 12, 2012
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Nah. Good minds think alike. :D
     
    #20 kyredneck, Jul 12, 2012
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