Lutheran salvation theology

I am visiting with a a Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church on Sunday to "Hopefully" find a place in my community for fellowship. I am a committed Salvation by Grace / Doctrines By Grace theology believer & a Credo Baptist.

I liked my initial telephone conversation with the Pastor but I also recognize many differences that will preclude me from considering joining.

Therefore Id like some explanation on the Lutheran Salvation theology so Im better informed.

Please advise....thanks

 

OK .... I will start. On ELECTION, Luther embraced Unconditional Election. Basing his commentary on 1 Peter 1:2

New International Version (NIV)

2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
"They are chosen...not by themselves but according to God's arrangement...The human doctrine of free will and of our powers no longer amounts to anything. Our will is unimportant; God's will & choosing are decisive."

So according to Martin Luther....from what I understand--"FAITH" is the result of divine election, not the basis for it.

Now is this what modern Lutherans believe today....particularly WELS Lutherans?

 

Yea well I will bring my NKJ to the bible study & see what they say.

 

Yes Michael, but I primarily became both a Baptist because I believe Credo baptism & not Paedo baptism, is biblical....and I also see Definite Atonement as a secure salvation while Universal Atonement does not secure the salvation of any. These, and the sacramental stuff, I view as Roman Catholic holdovers. I perhaps can have fellowship with them, but would certainly never ever join or have any family members join. I would consider that one step forward & a million steps backward.

 

Well thank you Michael....thats very gracious of you & I sincerely hope so too. As a matter of fact,it's encouraged me to read up & examine the Lutheran movement much more.

I also hear they like to sing & thats music to any Welshmans heart!!!

Lastly by the names of these folks ...think there mostly German & they are a clean & well organized people....I like that since my wifes family on her dads side are all Prussians. Maybe they know where there is an Octoberfest....wouldnt that be cool! Das Auto...:laugh:

 

Well aware of the sacraments issues but they all come 2nd to UNIVERSAL ATONEMENT ie Christs death reconciles everyone to God. Now what I dont know is, do Lutherans believe Jesus' death is an actual atonement for the sins of all people -- then wouldn't the result be that all people are saved?

or... was Jesus' death really not an actual atonement, but only something that makes atonement possible? I believe this to be what most Non-Calvies believe but I'm not certain about Lutherans. Most NC's will tell you that the atonement becomes actual when the sinner repents & believes on Jesus (someone please correct me if I am wrong--Hopefully a Lutheran or an ex-Lutheran to clarify)

Lastly I hope you are in error with your last statement about his (ML) being the final say in interpreting scripture.... I hope the HS had allot to do with it. :love2:

 

Interaction with the Holy Spirit is where I totally loose Luther. It appears he is trying to fix a wrong he perceives about the RCC & their "Scripture Lite" characteristics. So instead of concentrating on the bible he attempts a balance between the Word Of God & the Holy Spirit so he creates this convoluted outward & inward thing where outwardly God deals with us through the gospel & through the visible signs of infant baptism & the Lords Supper (Lutheran Sacraments). This, if I understand correctly, is God the Father.

Now inwardly God deals with us through the Holy Spirit & faith. But this is always in such a way & in this order that the outward means must precede the inward means, and the inward means comes after through the outward means. So, then, God has willed that He will not give anyone the inward gifts (of the Spirit & faith) except through the outward means {of the Word & the sacraments}

Information taken from the book: HISTORIC THEOLOGY by Gregg Allison--Pgs 441-442.

If any Lutherans understand this & can help me to understand this....PLEASE step up as I'm confused.

 

I don't know.... I was searching through the archives regarding this whole mess and stumbled upon a commentary by Sinclair Ferguson. He said that unless the atonement is both particular & effective then we have really destroyed the unity and harmony of the Trinity.

Look at the confusing stuff the Lutherans believe. It appears to be saying that the members of the trinity don't quite know what they are doing.

The Father has chosen the elect, but the son died for all & the spirit has managed to apply the atoning work of Christ to some. Huh???

Again if there is a Lutheran out there who could explain this & pull it together, please feel free to step up.

Thank you

 

Im not going to be there if thats true.......unless of course they have a pig roast for Octoberfest! :laugh:

 

I view this entire commentary as opinion, not truth. This board has discussed these issues Ad Nauseum so I wont even consider any more further dialog about it.

The OP is about Lutheran Beliefs....if you can clarify the questions I have then please do ....otherwise I will ignore the criticisms of Doctrines of Grace theology as they dont address the issues.

Well my apologies.... I thought that was you Jerome....I did not see the attachment. Not only are they misguided in their understanding of DOG, they purposefully use outdated terminology. And Yeshua is right, their distinctive s are more Arminian than Baptist....after reading the SBC blurb I realized I have more in common with SBC than Lutherans. Thanks for the heads up!

 

So what do you think of this guy & his theories Bill?