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Featured Doesn't Hebrews 2:3 Show The Sign Gifts Had Already Ceased?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Yeshua1, Oct 26, 2012.

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  1. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    No, it is adding to God's word!

    Again..adding your theory to the Word without scipture proof!

    I just reject your theory or interpretationof what it says!

    I just do not say he can not do what he says he can do..and still does!

    No, sorry... NOONE has shown in scriptures where tongues are to evangalize..they have added there own interpretation without letting scriptures interprete scriptures.
     
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    I don't know where you got the idea that I said the Bible is God. I never said that. The Bible is under no threat at all. It has been under attack for ages. It has withstood the attacks of the devil throughout these many centuries and it will continue to do so. God is faithful to His promises. The Bible means much, even without the Holy Spirit. It is still God's revelation to mankind. It is the Holy Spirit that illuminates the mind of the believer. It is the Holy Spirit that convicts the sinner of righteousness, sin and of judgment.
    It sounds like a false accusation or you have been confused by a cultist. Where are you getting these ideas and why post them here?
    I was saved through the Bible alone. Does that answer your question. Or will you call into question my salvation now? Certainly the Holy Spirit was there to convict of sin, but that is about all. The person that gave understanding was the one with the Bible, explaining it to me.
    Show me how that is any different than Philip explaining the Word to the Ethiopian Eunuch. "How can I understand except some "man" show me," he said. Then Philip opened the Scriptures and preached Christ to Him. It is the Scriptures that are the power of God unto salvation.
    You are wrong. It is the word that is alive and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword. It is the power of God unto salvation. The Holy Spirit uses the Word. You have things backwards.
    God's revelation to us teaches us all that God intends us to know about him. It is his perfect and complete revelation of himself to us. We do not need anything more for this present time than what is contained in the Word of God.
    The Bible describes itself or the Scriptures as a mirror many times. Our image doesn't reflect so clearly, usually because of our sin.
    Unless you can find me a person that is doing healing on a scale like Peter was in Acts 5:16 I will consider the gift of healing as closed; ceased. No one has that gift today. God healed in the OT, and he heals in the NT. He heals in answer to prayer. That is not "the gift of healing."
    Pentecost marked the beginning of the "Church Age" or the period of time when the Holy Spirit came and indwelt the believer at the time of salvation.
    God doesn't seal a church or the church, and the gifts have ceased. I have not seen a single demonstration of a Biblical sign gift in this century, by anyone.
    What language was it? Did you need an interpreter? If so why? Who were you talking to or preaching to? IOW, what was the purpose or occasion of this experience? It must have had a very important purpose. Was it in a language you had previously studied? How do you it was either accurately spoken or accurately interpreted?
    It was very active with Jesus. That was part of his ministry. He went around healing people. Read the gospels. It was then a gift of the apostles. He sent them out with that gift as part of their ministry. As time passed on that gift was used less and less, as were all the sign gifts, until they all passed right out of existence by the end of the first century.
    Apostolic and Church Age have the same beginning.
    The Apostolic age ended near the end of the first century, or perhaps shortly after the destruction of Jerusalem when the Temple was destroyed, and the nation of Israel was scattered. At that time tongues would have no longer been needed for it was a sign to the unbelieving Jew. But now they were scattered. Their unbelief and unrepentance had brought the fulfillment of judgment as the Scriptures had said. There was no more need of the "sign."
    Officially the apostolic age died when the last apostle, John, died just after he wrote Revelation in 98 A.D.
    The Church Age will come to an end with the coming of Christ.
     
  3. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    See how you have twisted what has been said, and avoided answering the post. Try it again.
    No where does the Scripture teach that tongues is a private prayer language. That is not taught in Scripture anywhere. (Address the point this time). In fact to prove your point you have to take a wrecking ball to the Scriptures. You take a rebuke given to the Corinthians, and then turn it on its side and say: there, see: "Paul is positively teaching tongues are to be used for private prayer."
    You use a negative as a positive. It is totally irresponsible.
    You do not rightly divide the word of truth.
     
  4. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Yes, the Bible does say it is speaking to God...speaking to God is prayer!
     
  5. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Prove through the Scriptures, a proper use of the Scriptures, that there is any such thing as a private prayer language. Lay down a logical Scriptural argument for all to see.
     
  6. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    I have in every thread!
     
  7. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    No you haven't. You have answered people's objections. You have taken one verse out of 1Cor.14, turned it on its side, put it upside down, and then tried to turn it inside out. You tried to take a positive from a negative; tried to prove from a rebuke and condemnation that something was good.

    But all in all you haven't laid down a cogent defense for your case. If you really believe you have a case for "a private prayer language" then let's see it. Lay it out, both logically and Scripturally for all to see. Give a defense for your faith.

    1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
     
  8. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    Start another thread..about prayer language and I will! I will have nothing new...because like I said..I have posted WITH SCRIPTURES why I believe tongues is talking to God. This is about Heb. 2:3 and if it proves the gifts have ceased! It does not prove the gifts have ceased!
     
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? You can't separate the two verses. Both must be taken together. The "gifts of the Holy Ghost" are mentioned in verse four. They confirmed the authenticity of the apostles. It was the apostles that performed them--signs and wonders, with divers miracles, and gift of the Holy Spirit. The message of salvation was confirmed by those who witnessed the Lord, and did these things, that is the apostles. That was their purpose--to authenticate them. Now we have no more apostles, we have no more gifts. There is no need of them. They died with the apostles. What you have now is a cheap imitation of what was genuine in the first century; but clearly not Biblical. The most commonly abused gift was and is tongues. So yes I can talk of that now. Your refusal to mount any kind of defense concerning this gift (whether private or public) is a tacit admission that: 1. You don't have a Biblical defense. 2. You know it is not Biblical. There is only one "tongues" or gift of tongues, and that is public. It is speaking in another language, a language that others could understand. Even in prayer, the prayer was public, out loud, so that others would know when to say "Amen." It was never private; never! That is not in Scripture. There is only one kind of tongues; one gift--the gift of languages to be used for the edification of others--not a selfish prayer language. Never is it used that way. It is one of the gifts, one of the ones the apostles had, and by the time the apostles were dead, it was dead as well. What started in 1905 was derived from paganism, not from the Spirit of God.
     
  10. awaken

    awaken Active Member

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    The manifestation of the Holy Spirit have not ceased and Heb. does not say it has! Period!!
    I have never said that those signs did not follow the apostles. But you limit the HOly Spirit just to manifest through the apostles. The Scriptures do not limit them to JUST the aposltes.
     
  11. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    In both passages (2Cor.12:12 and Heb.2:3,4) the gifts of the Spirit, as an entire package, were given to the Apostles. That is not true of other believers. In fact the opposite is true. Paul explicitly taught in 1Cor.12:28ff, that the members of the church only had one or two gifts each. They were to be satisfied with the gift that God gave them, and use it. They were not to desire others.

    What do you think this verse means?
    1 Corinthians 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
    --It was a rebuke to them.
    They all couldn't have the same gifts. They all couldn't be an eye or a hand. Some had to be other "uncomely parts" of the body. Read the chapter.

    But the apostles had all the gifts, as Hebrews passage testifies, and were given all the gifts to authenticate them as apostles. When they died so did the gifts.
     
  12. Sularis

    Sularis Member

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    quick sigh

    every time ive tried to posted a reply this board has crashed

    to reply never studied the language - didnt know i was speaking it - i was on a missions trip - just two weeks in was in another region - bible study in that language

    it was to reply to a falsehood - after i spoke it - i didnt understand their responses in that language

    lucky enough people spoke english after that

    but im not going through the pages of verses i had typed out ill shorten it

    1) What is our inheritance?

    2) What is the Holy Spirit to us?

    3) Did Peter or even Jesus heal every day? - and when they healed did they always heal hundreds of people?

    4) I know youve answered this but i was hoping to see if you could one word answer it for me - without the Holy Spirit illuminating calling and/or explaining it to us can the BiBle save us?

    i would never doubt your salvation not my job or call - i would just like to express my appreciation for the sheer manliness your cahones for basically telling God that He in the form of the Spirit is just extra window dressing

    oh before i go ill answer the questions

    1) eternal fellowship with God

    2) of which the sealing and Baptism of the Holy Spirit is only the earnest of our inheritance - The gifts are a result of the Spirit - no Spirit no gifts - if the Spirit is with us the gifts are too

    3) no and no

    4) No - just as the Ethopian eunuch needed help - so does the world for it is not with words that we are saved but by the Power of God

    i really am annoyed this board refused to post the thing of beauty where i linked over two dozen verses together
     
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