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Why did KJ authors use Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Scarlett O., May 23, 2013.

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  1. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    I have a wonderful sweet elderly handicapped man at my church who has written a tract and gave it to me to edit. I love this guy as he has a great burden for lost people and even in his crippled condition would -until now that he is wheel-chair and home bound - pass out tracts to all kinds of people everywhere he went.

    The tract he has written is a hot mess. It's hard to follow, hard to read, and impossible to understand.

    He's a staunch King James Onlyist. His tract, that he wanted me to pass around in it's typed 8.5 by 11 form to others, has its basic tenet that the KJV of the Bible says "Holy Ghost" and NEVER "Holy Spirit" and therefore "Holy Spirit" is a lie.

    How do I tell him that the King James Version does indeed say "Holy Spirit" in Luke 11:13 and that both "Holy Ghost" and "Holy Spirit" mean literally - the same exact thing.

    He had me completely type OVER another tract he used to pass around about using the Lord's Name in vain, which was a really a good tract. But, it contained the phrase "Holy Spirit" and he refused to pass anymore out until I typed the whole thing over with "Holy Ghost" with new pictures and all.

    He has no idea what he was asking. I told him that I would make two copies, but that "he and I" couldn't rewrite the tract for mass use as that would infringe on someone's copy-rights and be illegal.

    I did make a whole new tract and typed "Holy Ghost", inserted new pictures per his request, laminated two copies, and folded into a tract-sized document.

    He was pleased and thanked me profusely. I wanted to tell him then about his wrong thinking about "Holy Ghost vs. Holy Spirit", but I just couldn't do it.

    Now that he has written his "own" tract and wants me to edit it, I'm in pickle. I CAN'T make his writings in a tract. As I said, it's a hot mess.

    And I can't - in good conscience - let him believe that I agree with his writings.

    He is such a beloved man by all who know him and a wonderful and courageous person - but I've to say something to him.

    I guess here's my question. If the word "Holy Ghost" and "Holy Spirit" both literally mean "hagios pneuma" how can I explain that two different words are just two different words?

    And since "Holy Spirit" is INDEED in the King James in Luke 11:13 and this mans' work is such a disaster .......

    .....please help me with what to tell him. I don't want to hurt him or make him feel bad.
     
    #1 Scarlett O., May 23, 2013
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    SAMe greek word in both translations, its kust at the time of the Kjv translators, Ghost was the normal way they would have viewed that term, but when we translate it now, Ghost has taken on different flavor, so wish to avoid making Him seem like Casper the friendly Ghost!
     
    #2 Yeshua1, May 23, 2013
  3. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    "Holy Ghost" is used 90 times in the NT by the Authorized Version but never in the OT.

    The word ”ghost” is derived from the Old English ”gast” or later ”goost” and has a wide semantic range, "soul”, “spirit”, “life”, “breath”; a good or bad spirit, angel, demon.

    Historically ghosts were thought to be composed of a misty, airy, or breathy substance and that a ghost was a person within the person (the person's spirit).
    The spirit departed with the person’s last breath, hence "gave up the ghost".

    "Holy Spirit" occurs four times in the New Testament, [Luke 11:13; Ephesians 1:13; 4:30; 1 Thessalonians 4:8] and three times in the Old Testament. [Psalm 51:11; Isaiah 63:10. 11].
    Some say that its use is an indicator of a prophetic viewpoint, I personally fail to see this context of the verses shown.

    It's almost impossible to get people to recognize error on the BaptistBoard,

    Show him love and a gentle, patient persistence.
    Perhaps begin by helping him study the many other forms of "spirit" that are used in the Old Testament, such as "Spirit of God" and "Spirit of the Lord."

    Rob
     
    #3 Deacon, May 23, 2013
  4. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

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    Scarlett O, you have a difficult situation but Deacon has given a very good answer (as he usually does). Your friend is not likely to be persuaded by the Greek (even though Yeshua1 is correct). I will add that there are several KJV verses that virtually undeniably indicate that the Holy Ghost and holy Sprit are one and the same person. So, perhaps just share these with him and let the 3rd Person of the Godhead lead this elderly man into truth --
    And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, (Luke 4:1)

    And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. (John 1:33)

    (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) (John 7:39)

    And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. (Acts 2:4)
    ​
     
    #4 franklinmonroe, May 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2013
  5. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Thank you all for your responses. I've read them very carefully.
     
    #5 Scarlett O., May 25, 2013
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    It was most likely just a whim of a given translator at the time. However, I believe a tract to be passed out to the lost should read "Holy Spirit" as we tend to relate "ghost" to Casper, spooks, the "Ghostbuster" movies, etc. giving it the meaning of the disembodied spirits of dead people. Given that word's usage in the 17th century, it's certainly not incorrect in the KJV.

    However, being old, handicapped, and beloved doesn't always make someone ALWAYS CORRECT. I hope you ask the Holy Spirit to help you explain his errors to him, and cause him to correct them and work with you to make an error-free tract that's easy to understand.
     
    #6 robycop3, May 26, 2013
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Great thread, thanks to all.
     
    #7 Van, May 26, 2013
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