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John 1:9 "light that lighteth every man"

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Jun 26, 2013.

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  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Jn. 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.....
    9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

    What is the "light of men"? "the life was the light of men"

    When is this light given men? "which ligheth every man that COMETH INTO THE WORLD" - upon entrance into this world - the light of life.

    Unless you believe that Christ gives ETERNAL life to "every man that cometh into the world" then what is given is PHYSICAL LIFE as PHYSICAL LIFE "was the light of men."
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Jun 26, 2013
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

    What world is that according to John 1- it is the one that "Christ made" according to John 1

    What human comes into the world? Everyone that is born!

    So then everyone that is born is enlightened by Christ - the true light of the world.

    "But men loved darkness rather than light" - they do not choose the light, they do not come to the light - but NOT because God arbitrarily elects not to include them as someone who "came into the world" through birth.

    They in fact - ALL come into the world - through birth.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #2 BobRyan, Jun 26, 2013
  3. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Here is how Ryan perverts scripture. The metaphor "light" is used two different ways in scripture. In John 1:4-9 it is used as a metaphor of NATURAL LIFE coming into a NATURAL WORLD. In the other passage forced into this context by Ryan it is used of KNOWLEGE or REASON.

    This is why it is useless to discuss anything with Ryan as he abuses and perverts the Word of God in order to force it to say what he wants it to say. The context of John 1:4-9 cannot be changed to fit Ryans intepretation. He tries to convolute two different contexts with two different uses of the metaphor "light" and make them the same when the context will not allow that. This is just plain dishonesty with the word of God.
     
    #3 The Biblicist, Jun 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2013
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    John stated that ONLY those whom received jesus had the right to be called the sons and daughters of god, so the light of jesus just for those in a spiritual sense!

    rest stayed in their own darkness and sins!
     
    #4 Yeshua1, Jun 27, 2013
  5. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    YOU are the abuser and perverter of God's Word, as the passage referenced is talking about spiritual life, NOT physical life. The clear meaning of the passage is easily seen, except by those who have difficulty discerning the spiritual from the physical.

    You twist this scripture so badly that you should be ashamed and repent for mangling the Word of God.
     
    #5 Thomas Helwys, Jun 29, 2013
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Can't read either huh? "He was the light and the light was the life of the world"! The life of who? The saved? No! the "world"! Do you believe the world has SPIRITUAL life?

    Second, this light occurs as they are "coming into the world". The "world" here is the PHYSICAL SPHERE and the "light" coming into the PHYSCIAL sphere cannot possibly be "spiritual" life.

    Your assertions are never supported by any kind of exegetical based interpetation but pure ignoranance and speculative philosophy.
     
    #6 The Biblicist, Jun 29, 2013
  7. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    I don't have to twist, contort, and mangle to understand what the verse is saying. I know you have to do that because reading the verse as it's written destroys your impossibly illogical and deranged interpretation. Plus, I realize your grammar school education is a hindrance to you.

    The Quakers and Wesleyans properly understood this verse long before you were even a twinkle in your father's eye.
     
    #7 Thomas Helwys, Jul 6, 2013
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Here then is a text that truly "needs to be downsized" if we are to get Calvinism's limited atonement - to "survive it".


    =========================================

    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

    What world is that according to John 1- it is the one that "Christ made" according to John 1

    What human comes into the world? Everyone that is born!

    So then everyone that is born is enlightened by Christ - the true light of the world.

    "But men loved darkness rather than light" - they do not choose the light, they do not come to the light - but NOT because God arbitrarily elects not to include them as someone who "came into the world" through birth.

    They in fact - ALL come into the world - through birth.
     
    #8 BobRyan, Jul 6, 2013
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    If ever a text "needed to be downsized" to Calvinism's limited atonement could "survive it" -- it is John 1:9

    ========================

    Instead of blaming this fault on God saying "As many as I happened to remember to cause to choose light and choose me and receive me - to THEM I gave.."

    The text places all of the differentiator on the person alone "To as many as received".

    Not "to as many as I just so happened to capriciously cause to receive".

     
    #9 BobRyan, Jul 6, 2013
  10. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Lots of moaning and groaning but no one yet has overturned the clear and explicit textual definition of "light" as "life" - the kind of "life" necesary for anyone that "cometh" into the world.
     
    #10 The Biblicist, Jul 6, 2013
  11. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    John 1:9 means only one thing: That the Light of Christ or prevenient grace has been given to everyone. Titus 2:11 confirms that. The Quakers, Wesleyans, and General Baptists have the correct interpretation. These verses are clear. To interpret them any other way is to mangle them into something forced, illogical, and untenable.

    It is quite amusing, ironic, and disingenuous for someone taking the moniker "Biblicist" to torture this verse the way he does. He dishonors the Word of God.
     
    #11 Thomas Helwys, Jul 6, 2013
  12. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Tradition is your source of authority not the Scriptural context. Titus 2:11 is outside the immediate context. The immediate context provides an explicit clear and unambiguous definition which you simply don't like because it does not support your traditions.

    Jn. 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.


    In addition this is the light of "life" given as they come into the world - physical life:

    Jn. 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

    This is the PHYSICAL world as verse 10 clearly states, the world HE MADE or Created (1:2-3).

    Every man obtains their PHYSICAL LIFE from their Creator as they come into the physical world.

    Whether you like it or not that is the contextual application and definition. Your traditions mean nothing!
     
    #12 The Biblicist, Jul 6, 2013
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    excellent point.

    Originally Posted by BobRyan [​IMG]
    9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

    What world is that according to John 1- it is the one that "Christ made" according to John 1

    What human comes into the world? Everyone that is born!

    So then everyone that is born is enlightened by Christ - the true light of the world.

    John sticks with this theme in John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD - yes really!"

    And in John 16 - The Holy Spirit "convicts the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment"

    Calvinism's debunking is almost endless in the Gospel of John -- as expected.



    "But men loved darkness rather than light" - ALL do not choose the light, they do not come to the light - but NOT because God arbitrarily elects not to include them as someone who "came into the world" through birth.

    They in fact - ALL come into the world - through birth.



    Instead of blaming this fault on God saying "As many as I happened to remember to cause to choose light and choose me and receive me - to THEM I gave.."

    The text places all of the differentiator on the person alone "To as many as received".

    Not "to as many as I just so happened to capriciously cause to receive".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #13 BobRyan, Jul 6, 2013
  14. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Nice try, but again you are mixing contexts! John 3 has nothing to do with this creation context. The ONLY definition provided for "light" in John 1:4-9 is found in verse 4 and it is "life" and it is PHYSICAL LIFE because he speaking in a context of the PHYSICAL created world - vv. 2-10.

    In verse 9 "every man" is given this light in connection with coming into this created physical world and thus the Creator is the source of their physical life = light as previously defined in verse 4.

    Spiritual life originates with the will of God (vv. 12-13) also.
     
    #14 The Biblicist, Jul 6, 2013
  15. Thomas Helwys

    Thomas Helwys New Member

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    Anyone who thinks John 1:9 means physical life is as deluded as the Biblicist, or as intentionally distorting and mangling scripture as he is.

    The verse is simple and crystal clear.
     
    #15 Thomas Helwys, Jul 17, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2013
  16. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Could John 1:9 coincide with Psalms 19?
     
    #16 convicted1, Jul 17, 2013
  17. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    In this context, "light" is first defined at the beginning as "life" - v. 4 and the nature of this "life" is the kind given to them as they are coming into the world - physical life - v. 9

    However, "light" is also defined as the very Person of Christ and ETERNAL life found in Him in verses 6-8:

    6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
    7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
    8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

    Hence, the metaphor of "light" is used only in John 1:4-13 to represent PHYSICAL and SPIRITUAL life both found in Christ. Christ gives PHYSICAL life at the point of men coming into the world and gives SPIRITUAL life at the point of regeneration (Jn. 1:13). He is the source of LIFE both physical and eternal.
     
    #17 The Biblicist, Jul 17, 2013
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