1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Misapplied verses

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Herald, Sep 24, 2013.

  1. Herald

    Herald New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    27
    Matthew 18:20 "For where two or three have gathered in My name, I am there in the midst."

    These passage is often used to defend the teaching that Christ is present whenever "two or three" are gathered in His name. I have heard people use this in regards to prayer and even bible studies. But is that what this verse means in its larger context? Let us look at the larger context:

    The entire passage is on church discipline. Verses 18-20 teach that God validates the discipline decisions of the local church when the church is agreed on it.

    Now, is Christ, through the Holy Spirit, present if two or three Christians are gathered? Certainly. But He is also there if only one is gathered. He is there if thirteen are gathered. It is just that Matthew 18:15-20 is teaching something different.

    Why is this important? Because discipline is lawfully applied only within the church, not outside the church.
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Yes... this I have heard almost always out of context,and to defend error.
    Some confuse the Kingdom of God with the church.
     
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    33,286
    Likes Received:
    3,547
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I've noticed that also. I have heard the verse many times, but never in context of the actual passage.
     
  4. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    Herald - WHERE IS THE MICROPHONE HIDDEN IN MY HOUSE??????

    That was REALLY spooky! Hubby and I were JUST talking about this about 2 hours ago. Wow!!!

    Bottom line, there is no way you can get around the context - and the fact that SO often it is taken out and used for all sorts of things that it's not supposed to be used for!
     
  5. beameup

    beameup Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    2
    The Greek word ecclesia is used, however the Gentile Church did not exist,
    and would later be "revealed" only to the Apostle Paul, so the word just means a gathering or meeting in a synagogue.
     
  6. Herald

    Herald New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    27
    LOL! Trust me. There is no microphone. Unless, of course, the NSA placed it.
     
  7. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,914
    Likes Received:
    706
    I don't believe you. The green men told me that you planted a mic under the piano.

    :wavey:
     
  8. Herald

    Herald New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    27
    When I first learned what the passage meant, in context, I was chagrined. I had been a Christian for nearly 25 years and found it hard to swallow that I had jumped on the bandwagon without giving the passage any serious thought. Since then I have had my biblical paradigm broken more than a few times. It is all part of learning.
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    :applause: Early on I did the same thing.I heard a good series of messages on the church that set me back on track...:laugh:Coming from an RC backround, I wrongly thought that baptists had it all right...:laugh:
     
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    21,242
    Likes Received:
    2,305
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    What!!!!! it is tuesday night and you and your husband were discussing spiritual truth????? Isn't that only for sunday? What is going on in that household??? Godly living, and a Godly marraige Christ centered and alive???
     
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,500
    Likes Received:
    2,880
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Context is about apostolic authority:

    18 Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
    19 Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father who is in heaven.
    20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

    Acts 15 council at Jerusalem is a good example, Paul in 1 Cor 5:5 and so on is another.

    Christ's apostles were given authority.
     
  12. Herald

    Herald New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    27
    Certainly the Apostles were given authority (Mat. 16:19), and the Church is to follow the teachings of the Apostles (Eph. 2:20). But Jesus' teaching in Matthew 18 has direct application to the Church. It is the model for dealing with the sin of believers.
     
  13. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Messages:
    8,121
    Likes Received:
    17
    Exactly.

    I agree with the misuse of this passage, it is common and talked about often.

    Another hugely misapplied passage is Matthew 7:1...'judge not'.
     
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,500
    Likes Received:
    2,880
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Christ was not telling 'the Church', i.e. you and me, that "what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." That was addressed to the apostles as in the manner addressed to Peter, "I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,376
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is exactly why Roman Catholics insist on making their claim stick....IE, their Priests, Bishops etc are the descendent's of the Apostles therefore they have permission directly from the Lord.
     
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,500
    Likes Received:
    2,880
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "Lord, wilt thou that we bid fire to come down from heaven, and consume them?"

    I don't believe any priest, bishop etc., has ever had that sort of authority.
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2010
    Messages:
    33,376
    Likes Received:
    1,568
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Well they are making that claim up here in SODOM & GOMORRAH! They have even got a set of keys from what I understand. And since there is no Baptists here to dispute that.....the lie gets perpetuated.....and it grows & it grows & it grows.:smilewinkgrin:
     
  18. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    29
    Off Topic: Let him be unto you as a Gentile and a tax collector. I am already a Gentile and if I had a job as a tax assessor I would be a tax collector. What meaning would this be to me. The definition of a heathen and a publican had a stronger meaning back then than it does now. I will stick with the King James version.
     
    #18 salzer mtn, Sep 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2013
  19. Herald

    Herald New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    1,600
    Likes Received:
    27
    If I used your method of interpreting scripture then most of the Bible would have no relevance to the Church. After all, Acts was written to Theophilus; James to of the saints to the Diaspora; Revelation to seven specific churches; 1 and 2 Timothy to Timothy et. al.
     
    #19 Herald, Sep 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2013
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    19,500
    Likes Received:
    2,880
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So the assemblies have been given 'power and authority over all demons, and to cure diseases', or, to turn one over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh?

    My 'method of interpretation' is perfectly in line with Charles Hodge's three simple rules:

    1. The Scriptures are to be taken in the sense attached to them in the age and by the people to whom they were addressed.

    2. Scripture cannot contradict Scripture.

    3. The Scriptures are to be interpreted under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which guidance is to be humbly and earnestly sought.
     
Loading...