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Old Testament and providing for the poor?

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by evenifigoalone, Dec 11, 2013.

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  1. evenifigoalone

    evenifigoalone Well-Known Member

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    I can't seem to find it now, but there was a thread recently wherein we discussed the Bible's view on redistribution of wealth.

    Well, it occurred to me a couple days ago something from the Old Testament times--where God set up a way for the poor and those who couldn't provide for themselves a way to eat. Those who had crops were required to leave some for this purpose.
    Thoughts?


    Now don't get me wrong--I'm not a believer in redistribution of wealth. I'm a believer in and supporter of private charity. I believe the government's role in general should be a very small one. I don't believe charity is the government's role and I think private charities do a better job.

    In the other thread we were primarily discussing the New Testament church. The New Testament church was not operating under a theocracy like Old Testament Israel was.

    Was what Old Testament Israel was doing redistribution of wealth? Well the system seems to involve providing food and not money, so probably not. I am curious what others have to say, though, as well as the debate that will spring up.
     
    #1 evenifigoalone, Dec 11, 2013
  2. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Joseph set up a 20% flat tax and Egypt was able to feed their poor with this. No mismanagement or corruption.

    The only other wealth redistribution I can find is the parable of the talents.
     
    #2 Bro. Curtis, Dec 11, 2013
  3. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected New Member

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    ... as the result of mismanagement of finances. Based on that parable, we should wrest control of finance from the government for the very same reason.
     
    #3 thisnumbersdisconnected, Dec 11, 2013
  4. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    Agree 100%. Remember, the guy who buried his talent was called "evil".
     
    #4 Bro. Curtis, Dec 11, 2013
  5. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    It was essentially a redistribution of wealth quest. God had set up a method of providing food for the poor from those who had more.

    They WILLINGLY did this.

    Because the church today has failed miserably in taking care of the poor, is it no wonder that God has placed a man in the White House who He is using to force those in the church to do what HE had already set the example for them to do, yet we have refused to do?

    I don't believe it to be coincidence.

    excellent question.
     
    #5 Zaac, Dec 11, 2013
  6. evenifigoalone

    evenifigoalone Well-Known Member

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    Actually I know of a quite a few ministries/charities set up in my community and around the globe that provide for the poor. Some of them are religious and some are not.

    Many do appear to fall under the view of the public eye--but they are there. There were some I didn't know of until one time we were told about some when they found out about our situation at the time.
     
    #6 evenifigoalone, Dec 11, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 11, 2013
  7. Zaac

    Zaac Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot quest. But the majority hvae nothing to do with the church. we stepped back and these organizations along with government tried to fill the spaces we vacated.

    Things are being socialized because the church, with all its wealth in the United States, wasn't doing what the social programs have or are now attempting to do.
     
    #7 Zaac, Dec 11, 2013
  8. evenifigoalone

    evenifigoalone Well-Known Member

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    To my understanding many churches do donate a portion of income received in tithes and offerings to such programs. I'm not sure of how many, though.

    I would like to see churches doing more. There was a thread about that a month or two back.
     
    #8 evenifigoalone, Dec 11, 2013
  9. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Leviticus 19:9–10 (ESV)
    “When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap your field right up to its edge, neither shall you gather the gleanings after your harvest.
    And you shall not strip your vineyard bare, neither shall you gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and for the sojourner: I am the LORD your God."
     
    #9 Deacon, Dec 11, 2013
  10. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member
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    Called gleaning.
    Particularly note that they had to work for the grain; the owners did NOT gather it and then parcel it out to those who were hungry, as our modern liberals feel so obliged to do.

    I know the question is coming - "Why do you hate the poor?" :tongue3:
     
    #10 just-want-peace, Dec 11, 2013
  11. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

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    Pretty much exactly what I was going to say.
     
    #11 Sapper Woody, Dec 11, 2013
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    and just WHO determines failure?

    If a church provides 2 meals a day - would that be failing to provide for a persons needs?

    and with the govt - in charge - what is being done to help reciepents help themselvs?

    I visited a church once that had a food pantry. The clearing house that provided the food had some rules. The food was to be given away - had to be totally free - that meant no charge for the food - and the church could not require attendece at the church - nor could the church require a reciepent to do any chores - and that would even (as specificaly stated) means answering a telephone.

    One more example - had a family in a previous church - they were short on funds- they recieved SSI, foods stamps, Medicaid, ect. Mrs Salty was planning on taking them to the grocery store and buy them about $100 worth of grocries. Before we did, our plan was to preform surgery - not put on a band-aid. We sat down and looked at all their expenses. (BTW - no kids just 2 adults) Very first item on the list of monthly expenses - $300 for cancer sticks. Also included was a subcribition for playb0y mag, along with other several non neccesities. They were unwilling to decrease their use of the cancer sticks. Mrs Salty and I left - without offering the grocery store trip.

    THAT IS THE REASON - THE GOVT PROGAM IS A FAILURE - No responsiblity is required.
    IN addition - food stamaps enrolment has doubled in the past ten years (I dont think the population has doubled). As this assistane should be a temp soulution the goal should be to get people off food stamps.

    II Thes 3:10 states:
    For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat.

    So ZAAC -
    1) do you think that mortal man in the White House believes this passage?
    2) do you think Mrs Salty should have purchased the grocries for the couple?
     
    #12 Salty, Dec 12, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2013
  13. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    In contrast to the enslavement of the Hebrew people in Egypt, this act of Joseph enslaved the Egyptian people.
    Land was taken from the people and the government was greatly enlarged

    Joseph may have kept the people of his master, the Pharoah, alive, but by accepting aid, they became slaves.

    No wonder he is not mentioned in their histories - he was a tyrant to them.

    Michael Heiser on his "Naked Bible" blog did an excellent series of posts on Poverty and Social Justice a while back
    >>> Here<<<

    Rob
     
    #13 Deacon, Dec 12, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2013
  14. FollowTheWay

    FollowTheWay Well-Known Member
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    Mr

    You guys are coming at this from the wrong direction. The redistribution of wealth has already occurred, from the poor and middle classes to the wealthy. The middle class is in the process of going away in our country. The middle class has always been considered America's greatest strength because it was the middle class that had the opportunity to get a good education, work hard and better their lot.
     
    #14 FollowTheWay, Dec 12, 2013
  15. Sapper Woody

    Sapper Woody Well-Known Member

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    Concerning Joseph and his tax, I'm pretty sure we can easily play the "extenuating circumstances" card. I mean, last I checked, no one has had a vision letting us know about a 7 year famine coming along.
     
    #15 Sapper Woody, Dec 12, 2013
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