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Featured One strike against Calvinists--Need to balance GRACE & Truth

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by evangelist6589, Mar 24, 2014.

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  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    I am speaking solely from my experience. But in my years of being a Christian I have seen a pattern in many Calvinists (not all) but many in that they are very judgmental and very dogmatic over issues the Bible is not that clear on. I have had some interesting discussions on FB over secondary issues with stronger Calvinists than me and each time I say lets not divide over secondary issues, but each time they get dogmatic and opinionated and sometimes I get unfriended or most likely blacklisted in their circles and all because I have a different opinion on a SECONDARY issue! If thats not christian immaturity and a lack of love I do not know what is! Randy Alcorn took the words from my mouth.

    He also talks about grace oriented christians whom love forgiveness and freedom, but see biblical standards as legalism, and biblical truth as being dogmatic and pharisee like.

    Having spent 4-years in a Weslyian University before I went to Bob Jones, I saw their error on too much grace and not enough truth, and then the polar opposite at BJU, and they were in general not even Calvinists!!

    Guys we need more grace and we need to balance Grace and Truth. How many Calvinists would recommend this Randy Alcorn book? Very few. Would Paul Washer or MacArthur? Probably not as Alcorn is not a Calvinist. See what I mean? This is why its a wise idea to read from non Calvinists to get BALANCE. There are people on Facebook whom have told me that Pastor Erwin Lutzer is a bad teacher and someone not paying any attention and all because of his moderate Calvinism and non Lordship views. Lutzer is a wonderful man of God and has far more grace than Paul Washer or others. No I need to strike a balance between Grace and Truth, for the way some of these hard-line Calvinists have treated me makes me seriously want to consider my disposition.

    I love Washer and MacArthur, but I see a general lack of grace in their die hard followers and a very judgmental attitude towards those that disagree with them on secondary matters. This is NOT HEALTHY.
     
    #1 evangelist6589, Mar 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2014
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Have you toldthis to your buddies at the Calvinist Cafe?
     
    #2 Earth Wind and Fire, Mar 24, 2014
  3. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    They are not the ones I have had an issue with. Besides what are you trying to say man? I come and say that I may be wrong and try and create a serious thread and you go off on an attack on me.
     
    #3 evangelist6589, Mar 24, 2014
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The problem is you spoke against Calvinists and now you must be destroyed.
     
    #4 Revmitchell, Mar 24, 2014
  5. Thousand Hills

    Thousand Hills Active Member

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    :tongue3: :laugh: :tongue3: Your a hoot Rev.

    I've said this all before, but when I first came here I didn't know where I stood on these issues, I had more questions then answers (and still do to some extent). Many of the Cal's came off very arrogant to me. But as I continued to study and lurk through the debates I saw that the Cal's always offered the most scripture to support their position, while the non-Cal's sided with feelings and emotions a lot of the time. I eventually saw that the Cal's at least on BB were not arrogant but confident, confident in what scripture said even though it is not always popular. (Phillipians 1:6, 2 Timothy 2:15)

    In the short time I've been here I've seen several come to embrace the DOG through the rigourous debates. I don't believe I've seen any that came in with a reformed/cal perspective that have changed the other way. Just my opinion but some of the vitriol on this board seemed to reach its peak when C1 (Willis) embraced the DOG. From reading his posts he always seemed like a nice guy before he changed his position and has been a nice guy after.

    Regardless, to answer the OP I agree with your statement about balance. There are good and humble people on both sides of the debate. Surround yourself with these folks, and don't waste your time with the arrogant and proud, whatever their position is.
     
    #5 Thousand Hills, Mar 25, 2014
  6. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    I just asked you if you had enough guts to take this act of yours to real Calvinists....thats all I asked you & you get defensive. What I see in you Evan is that you have very little confidence in yourself & what you believe. Thats a fault in yourself you should correct. When you start believing the stuff of arminians, you show them you are not sure of yourself. What does Christ say about a luke warm person? Think about it.
     
    #6 Earth Wind and Fire, Mar 25, 2014
  7. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected New Member

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    Yes, out of context and misinterpreted. Quoting Scripture badly doesn't make for a good argument.
     
    #7 thisnumbersdisconnected, Mar 25, 2014
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Yes I know cals believe their rude and arrogant manner in debating convinces people to turn their way. Its delusional.
     
    #8 Revmitchell, Mar 25, 2014
  9. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    By my count, they have gained more converts to their camp than any non Calvinist on this board has....so statistics are on the Calvinist side. Also guys like Winman have helped the Calvie cause immeasurably.
     
    #9 Earth Wind and Fire, Mar 25, 2014
  10. Thousand Hills

    Thousand Hills Active Member

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    There was this guy, but he never stuck around to expound upon his journey.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=74015
     
    #10 Thousand Hills, Mar 25, 2014
  11. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Doesn't Van rate an honorable mention?
     
    #11 Rippon, Mar 25, 2014
  12. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    I am a DoG kinda guy, but I'm not arrogant. In fact, I am quite humble. And proud of it. Humility is one of my most appealing virtues.

    Seriously, I don't understand how anyone who claims to be Calvinist could have one shred of arrogance. The Doctrines of Grace should produce humility and gratitude. No DoG should be smug, and if he is, he should look again at what he believes.
     
    #12 Tom Butler, Mar 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 25, 2014
  13. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Shame in you. "Cut n paste" is fun...
     
    #13 convicted1, Mar 25, 2014
  14. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Ahhhh, yes he does. Thanks for reminding me.:thumbs:
     
    #14 Earth Wind and Fire, Mar 25, 2014
  15. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Yeah, that's why you guys love me so much, because I am bringing folks over to your side. :laugh:
     
    #15 Winman, Mar 25, 2014
  16. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Well-Known Member
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    Actually I strive for BALANCE. Reformed Theology is the most Biblical, however its not without problems, and one problem is the way some of its die hard followers act towards others. However this is not a characteristic of all Reformed.
     
    #16 evangelist6589, Mar 25, 2014
  17. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Sure, but wasn't your OP an attack upon many, yet you cannot take even a slight rebuke?

    EWF's post was valid, face it in the same manner you've accused many others, or are you way above that, and that is the real message you're trying to convey?
     
    #17 preacher4truth, Mar 25, 2014
  18. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    We have to be careful when we talk about the "doctrines of grace". Is one speaking of Calvin's interpretations on the bible's "doctrines of grace", or is one speaking of the actual doctrines of grace as written and expressed in the Scriptures?

    I whole heartedly embrace the doctrines of grace found within the scriptures, yet I do not embrace TULIP nor Calvinism.

    Calvinism likes to make DoG and TULIP one in the same and this can be deceiving to new Christians who are just learning theologies. It's kinda like the Mormons calling themselves the church of Jesus Christ, they stole the name, but the definitions are very different between the real and the counterfeit.
     
    #18 steaver, Mar 25, 2014
  19. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I'm raising a stake as you type. [​IMG]
     
    #19 Aaron, Mar 25, 2014
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Tom,

    Extremely well said, most truthful, and certainly most appropriate at this time. No one saved by the Grace of God has any thing to brag about; instead our attitude should be one of humble gratitude to God. I do not understand how anyone who has experienced the Grace of God in Salvation could believe he has reason to be arrogant! Regardless of what anyone believes about the Doctrines of Sovereign Election and Grace Salvation is the result of a supernatural act of God!

    John 3:6-8
    6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
    8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    Ephesians 2:8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
     
    #20 OldRegular, Mar 25, 2014
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