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Featured When Did the KJVO Movement Start?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by John of Japan, May 5, 2014.

  1. prophet

    prophet Active Member
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    I put the page number on the other thread, after you went to bed.
    Check it out.
     
  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, & it might as well have been written by Oscar meyer or Jimmy dean, as it's quite fulla baloney.
     
  3. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Only in the boox by Ray and Fuller, mentioned above, with Ruckman's coming in thru the doggie door in 1964. As newer BVs proliferated, so did the number of "KJVO" authors, and the amount of KJVO writings, spread by the power of modern media. (Remember who is "prince of the air".)

    It's only in the last 30-or-so years we've seen church shingles or logos bearing the words "King James Bible Only" or similar, or heard preachers devoting whole sermons to KJVO.

    There's no 'official' KJVO org that I know of, mainly, I believe, because KJVOs must constantly be inventing new excuses to attempt to justify their belief in a NON-SCRIPTURAL doctrine of worship, as those excuses get shot down as fast as they're made.
     
  4. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Can you trace the modern movement to this? I can't. The fundamentalist authors at that time did not become KJVO, and even opposed the movement at its inception, men like John R. Rice, Bob Sumner, Stewart Custer and others.
     
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    What Ruckman book came out in 1964? I have his Manuscript Evidence, but that is copyrighted 1970.

    Before then you have (as I believe you pointed out) the cultist Wilkerson, J. J. Ray, Edward Hills (1967) and so forth, but none of these books spawned a movement as far as I can tell.
    Exactly! Those sermons are efforts at recruitment, which in my book is what a movement does. I've never heard of a sermon on the subject before the 1970s at the earliest.
    There doesn't have to be an umbrella organization for it to be a movement. The temperance movement had a number of organizations in it, and the "right wing" movement has many organizations connected with it.

    The KJVO movement has various organizations connected with it pushing the agenda, and there are now colleges and churches that have it on their signs and in their doctrinal statements as you've pointed out. To the best of my knowledge these things never existed in the 19th century or most of the 20th, ergo there was no KJVO movement prior to 1970 or so.
     
  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Come on man, why is it so hard for you to actually type in the quote? It can't be more than a sentence or two, right? I'll try again to find it, but under protest. How can I call this a debate when I have to do my opponent's work for him?
     
  7. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    I found nothing about what you are saying on p. 901. The "untenable position" on p. 895 is as follows:
    Is this where you think translators are instructed to translate from the KJV? I thought it might be but I waited for you to actually say so.

    Sorry, you misinterpret what the statement is saying. "Principle" does not mean "source language." I myself translate the NT according to the principles the KJV was done on: from the Greek, from the TR, literally, transferring the syntax and semantics from the original language to the target language as I can. But that does not mean I translate from the KJV.

    That 19th century English is a killer if you haven't read books from then enough to understand it. :smilewinkgrin:

    So I'll ask again: what missionary translation before the 20th century was done with the KJV as the source document?
     
  8. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Well I think you've got a pretty solid pattern with Bob Jones Sr, Norris, and others, especially with the publication of The Fundamentals. Many modernist proponents advocated other translations, more modern ones at the time, and these guys all preached against them and their translations. I'm in the midst of a busy season and don't plan on taking time to work this out with research. So my observation is just that, an observation.

    The KJVOnlyism probably didn't culminate into KJVO movement until after WW2 imho. :)
     
  9. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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  10. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Sure, it's in Fuller's Which Bible en toto, and I read it probably back in the 1970's and have referred to it occasionally since.
     
  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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  12. prophet

    prophet Active Member
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    What's your point?
     
  13. prophet

    prophet Active Member
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    Congrats. Now tell me what the untenable position is, cuz that's what I asked.

    Seems to me, that you hold it.
     
  14. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    The authors of The Fundamentals were not of the KJVO mentality. Many quoted from the KJV favorably as well as the REV and 1901 ASV.

    When you use the term "modernist" as it was used back then it means theological liberal these days. There were conservative Bible believing men who used other versions primarily or in tandem with the KJV in the first 20 years of the 20th century for instance.
     
  15. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
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    Again you are not paying attention, because I quoted it in post #27. And no, I do not hold the "untenable position," you do--assuming you believe as you appear to that one version should be "made the standard by which all versions should be made."

    And again I'll ask: what missionary translation in the 19th century was done from the KJV?
     
  16. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I think "prophet" may be confused. The only reference I can find to the statement is found in Dr. George W. Dollar's book "History of Fundamentalism in America" where he stats in Riley's day, a group of men still existed who believed, "(1) the Bible was finished in heaven and handed down, (2) the King James Version was absolutely inerrant, and (3) its literal acceptance was alone correct." (Page nine of Riley's book as quoted by Dr. George W. Dollar in his book "History of Fundamentalism in America", Page 114).

    :)
     
  17. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    My point is that book contains more than one goof, but it's the "foundation stone" of the current KJVO myth, with many KJVOs still repeating that book's errors almost as if they're "gospel", without bothering to check out their VERACITY. Case in point is the "Psalm 12:6-7 thingie".

    Virtually all KJVO literature that followed used material from that one book.
     
  18. prophet

    prophet Active Member
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    Thanks, but I was just pointing out that book as an earlier date than 1970.
     
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    I goofed. Indeed, Manuscript Evidence came out in 1970; it was Bible Babel that came out in 1964.

    Hard to put an exact date in the beginning of the current KJVO MOVEMENT, but it was well under way by 1972. I'd never heard of Dr. Wilkinson's book before I was saved in 1979, but I DO remember from when I was a boy, hearing some people say we needed a new Bible in OUR English, and others saying such a Bible would be sacrilege.( I'm age 66.)


    First sermon I ever heard pushing the KJVO myth was by the late Lester Roloff, on the radio, in the early 1980s. Dunno the date he first preached it, but, as he was killed in 1982, it was prolly from the mid-to-late 1970s.


    Many such orgs for the KJVO myth have arisen with the advent of the internet, & many of them have since dried up.

    I'd say it's safe to date the APPROXIMATE beginning of the current KJVO movement to 1970, after the publication of Which Bible? I believe that book drew attention to Ray's book, and maybe to Bible Babel. But it's clear that Dr. Fuller didn't want Dr. Wilkinson's CULT AFFILIATION to be well-known. (Dr. W. had died in 1968.)
     
  20. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    And the 1881 RV never had much popularity outside Great Britain, and certainly not in the USA. But it caused Westcott & Hort to become the main whipping boys of the current KJVO myth.

    Now, y'all might wonder why I keep calling the KJVO doctrine a myth, or even a doctrine. The reasons are:

    1.) A doctrine is anything taught, and KJVO IS taught.

    2.) A myth is any INVENTED, FICTITIOUS story, idea, concept, or false collective belief, and KJVO fits this definition exactly. Thus, I refer to the KJVO MYTH.
     
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