Featured Glorified

Excellent, Van. Well done.

 

We have been right now adopted by the father into the Beloved, right now have ternal life residing in us, and we await for the Lord to complete that process at the glorification of the physical body!

 

Unless we have been adopted here and now, we would not be sealed by the Spirit, and would not be his children in the Justified sense of that term!

 

I think everyone here could benefit from reading some of George Ladd's work on the concept of "already/not yet" fulfillment.

 

Doesn't it have the same meaning as the ones chosen before the foundation of the world to be in Christ were at that time. past tense, predestined, called, justified and glorified for they would be adopted as sons, to be conformed to the image of his Son, the firstborn from the dead thereby making Son firstborn among many brethren when they are so conformed.

It is the, "in Christ," that is in the past tense? We are predestined to be glorified, actual inheritors of glory, rather than heirs of glory.

 

Joint heirs with Christ. When was Christ glorified?

Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

Can we be glorified differently than Christ who has the preeminence?

 

Van,
I'm curious, wondering if you can clarify....

In a thread several months back, it seems to me that you were using "adoption as sons" and "redemption of the body" synonymously, as if to say that the redemption of the body is our adoption.

But it seems that your view here is that our adoption happens at the time of the redemption of our body.

Which are you saying?


Also, I disagree that "glorified" in Romans 8:30 relates to 2Cor 5:17

I think Percho is right, but it can be a little hard to understand his writing.

 

God the father chose US, those whom would be saved, from eternity past, as we were to be saved and placed into Him, and that we are adopted when we get saved, as the seal of the Spirit is the mark God placed on us in adoption, and that confirms that we will indeed receive ALL that we are to get as His children at the resurrection!

 

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence Col 1:18

"That," ties firstborn from the dead to preeminence. Without one you do not have the other. What is being spoken of here is one who was born of woman not some concept of, "God the Son."

who is marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of sanctification, by the rising again from the dead,) Jesus Christ our Lord; Rom 1:4 YLT

Even with Jesus the Christ the resurrection declares him to be Son. Why? Because according to the flesh he was the son of David, without the glory of God, I might add. Now he had prayed to Him who had begotten him of woman.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. John 17:5
Who by him (Jesus) do believe in God, (O Father that raised him (Jesus) up from the dead, and gave him (Jesus) glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. (The Father and the Son) 1 Peter 1:21

Man including Jesus born of Mary:
For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: 1 Peter 1:24

By the resurrection the Father gave to the Son glory that will not fade away. The glory he had in the Father before the foundation of the world.
Phil 2:7 but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made,

And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. 1 Peter 5:4 How? But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Rom 8:11

Before the world was it was predestined for there to be some to receive the same glory that the Christ, the Son of the Living God, would receive which had been emptied through being born of woman.

 

You're trying to use adoption to apply to a child, where scripture applies adoption to a son. And there is a difference

Romans 8:15 - For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”

Romans 8:23 - And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

Galatians 4:5 - so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Ephesians 1:5 - He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will


There is a huge difference between the Greek teknon (child) and huios (son)

"adoption as sons" - huiothesia, literally son placement

We are not sons at conversion, but we wait eagerly to be adopted as son (Rom 8:23)

 

Van, I'm sorry I haven't replied yet. I typed a reply twice, but it would not submit. I kept getting a gateway error for some reason - alas.


I'd really like to just give some parameters and a little bit of overview, then get down to details as we go along.

Romans 8:23 is, to me, a very confounding verse because my view seems iron-clad except for this one verse. I will admit that I am not fluent in Greek, but am only learning it. I have done a tremendous amount of word study, and understand tenses, voices, etc, and even some phrase structure, but I do not understand complete sentences. So I have a theory about this verse, but it is only that - a theory, based on an incomplete knowledge of Greek. In other words, I have to press my view onto the text to make it mean something it may not say.


I believe you wrote that in your view, adoption and glorification are synonymous. I would agree with that, but I think I may disagree with your view of glorification.

I see glorification in a much broader sense than simply receiving a glorified body. I believe glory is synonymous with honor, and to be glorified is to be set in a place of honor as a son.

Therefore, I believe adoption to be taking place at the time of resurrection, though I can also see a place for thinking that the resurrection is one aspect of our adoption.

But not synonymous in a strict, all encompassing sense


Hope this gives you something to chew on, and I'll offer details as we go along.

 

I like what you're trying to do here, Van. I have read some of Percho's posts on this issue, and I think he has some good insights. And I even think he and I might have the same exact view.

But as you've noted, it is very hard to determine exactly where he stands because of his writing style.