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Featured Clark Pinnock

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Rebel, Jul 18, 2015.

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  1. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

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    Anyone have opinions of him and his beliefs?

    (I put this thread in this section so all could contribute)
     
    #1 Rebel, Jul 18, 2015
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Maybe you could help us out by going ahead and stating what you either like or dislike about him. Not sure what you are looking for here.
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Jul 18, 2015
  3. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

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    Well, I like that he was willing to go where the search for the truth led him. He grew up in a liberal tradition but became evangelical. His beliefs were inspired by a wide variety of traditions.

    He believed that people might be saved by responding to the light they have.

    I am also open-minded on Open Theism.

    I like that he was a Baptist.
     
    #3 Rebel, Jul 18, 2015
  4. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    I believe that when the Bible teaches about the omniscience of God that it truly means that he knows everything - from beginning to end. There is nothing hidden from God - not even future events or our future actions.

    God knew and knows every move I will make and every thought I will have until the day I die and God knew and knows all of that before he said, "Let there be light".

    God is not limited to only knowing about the present. He does not limit himself on purpose. God's omniscience is unlimited and unfettered - otherwise he would not be omniscient.

    Mr. Pinnock would disagree with me on that.
     
    #4 Scarlett O., Jul 18, 2015
  5. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    So it is your position that a liberal cannot be evangelical?
     
    #5 Revmitchell, Jul 18, 2015
  6. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

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    No, not really. I was speaking in general terms.

    However, the evangelizing that some liberals do is not, in my opinion, an evangelism of the gospel. I feel the same way about some fundamentalists.
     
    #6 Rebel, Jul 18, 2015
  7. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

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    The Arminian view is that God foresees what will happen but that does not mean He determines it. An analogy would be that someone standing on a cliff overlooking a river can see that rafters heading toward a waterfall will go over if they do not change course. I'm not sure I buy all of that. For example, if God sees what will happen beforehand, isn't that still a kind of determinism? That's why I tend to think that Open Theism does a better job of explaining free will and sovereignty.
     
    #7 Rebel, Jul 18, 2015
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The term evangelical has lost any real meaning. Everyone claims to be one much like liberals (moderates) claim to be conservative. People want to be included without any accountability to why they should be included.
     
    #8 Revmitchell, Jul 18, 2015
  9. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

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    I think we search for terms to describe things, even if such terms are not completely accurate. I tend to describe myself as moderate, although I don't think that is wholly accurate. I know I don't fit neatly into any one camp. If I listed all my views, they would span the spectrum. I can affirm without reservation the Apostles Creed, though.
     
    #9 Rebel, Jul 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2015
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No, I don't think so. I think people want to be included so their view can be considered credible. W. A. Criswel put it well when he said "Because of the opprobrious epithet "liberal," today they call themselves “moderates.”
     
    #10 Revmitchell, Jul 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2015
  11. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Well, it can be like eating a prickly pear cactus trying to dovetail free-will and sovereignty to everyone's liking. Actually eating the prickly pear cactus would be easier.

    I'm not an Arminian nor a Calvinist so, ...

    You said, "for example, if God sees what will happen beforehand".

    For me, it's not a matter of if God sees, but that he sees it all at one time. He sees the whole canvas so to speak. And that doesn't deny that humanity makes their own choices in this life and to me.

    I'll never be able to explain it even to my own satisfaction, let alone anyone else's, but the scripture I read shed that light to me even if I can't verbalize it.
     
    #11 Scarlett O., Jul 18, 2015
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Yep, we as Christians need to stop trying to speak for God where He does not speak and learn to be comfortable with saying "I just don't know because God has not given that yet."

    God is sovereign even in our salvation and at the same time man is responsible to respond to the call of God for salvation. How do those two ideas exist at the same time without conflicting with one another. I have no idea God has not said. That being true does not change the truth of the former.
     
    #12 Revmitchell, Jul 18, 2015
  13. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

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    Do you not think there are any that could truthfully be called moderate?
     
    #13 Rebel, Jul 18, 2015
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I'll tell you what I am open to the idea if someone could actually define it in a clear fashion. I have to tell you though doctrines like Open Theism are extreme in nature and quite heretical. That is not meant as a slam against you or your openness to it but it is what it is.

    Doubting the narrative of Genesis and its author is nothing but pure liberalism. I am finding people who do support such notions and call themselves conservatives and moderates. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

    Any view that runs through science first in order to interpret scripture is extreme liberalism.

    Just some examples.
     
    #14 Revmitchell, Jul 18, 2015
  15. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    In his early years Clark Pinnock was an apologist for the faith, wrote a book about Biblical Inerrancy, and defended the Word of God as being inerrant.

    Then things changed. He began to deny that the Bible was inerrant. He started to believe in Open Theism. Many conservatives labeled him as a liberal and some even as an apostate.

    So the question is: Which Pinnock are you referring to?

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/augustweb-only/43-22.0.html

    A fairly good summary of his life can be read here:

    https://banneroftruth.org/us/resources/articles/2001/the-teaching-of-clark-pinnock/
     
    #15 DHK, Jul 18, 2015
  16. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

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    Even if you can't verbalize that, but your post is well-stated.
     
    #16 Rebel, Jul 18, 2015
  17. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

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    I didn't take what you said as a slam against me.
     
    #17 Rebel, Jul 18, 2015
  18. Rebel

    Rebel Active Member

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    I don't know, my journey is similar to his. I was quite conservative until I was about 20; then I became liberal, then agnostic. When I came back to historic Christianity, I'd say I landed somewhere in the middle. I know I have a couple of views that many would consider heretical. But I have many conservative views, too. I can affirm all of the Apostles Creed and all of the Nicene Creed except the part about baptism, because I think what they say is scriptural. And as I mentioned, I am unflinchingly traditional on ethics and morality. That wasn't always so. I am always studying and searching for truth. I know Jesus is ultimate truth.

    BTW, thanks for the links.
     
    #18 Rebel, Jul 18, 2015
  19. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Well, since Mr. Pinnock is dead, he actually is a convinced believer in the absolute omniscience of God!
     
    #19 Reformed, Jul 19, 2015
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    he started up pretty conservative, heu drifted away and became a holder for Open theism, and that there might be salvation in other then jesus for other religions of the world!
     
    #20 Yeshua1, Jul 20, 2015
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