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Man, Before the foundation of the world

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by percho, Jun 1, 2020.

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  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. Gen 2:7

    It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

    [[To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of David.]] O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.
    Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.
    When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
    What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
    For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
    Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
    All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
    The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.
    O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! Psalm 8

    Before the foundation of the world was the man to be created and or made intended to always be, a little lower than the angels? Was the first man, the living soul, Adam, a little lower than the angels, the fullness of what God intended him to be or was he the, prototype ? Was he excellent or just, very good?

    Did God intend for him to be something better?

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Before the foundation of the world, just what was going to need to happen in order for man to be conformed to the image of,"his Son," the son of man, who also was made a little lower than the angels?

    What needed to take place and needs to take place, in order for His Son, to become, the firstborn of, many brothers?

    Did Adam fall from something or did he fulfill his destiny?
     
    #1 percho, Jun 1, 2020
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  2. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Also consider: Before the foundation of the world or before Adam was created what did, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan have to do with how the man was going to be created?
     
    #2 percho, Jun 1, 2020
  3. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Job 38:3-7. This is God speaking to Job.

    Stand up like a man, and brace yourself;
    I will ask questions; and you, give the answers!

    4 “Where were you when I founded the earth?
    Tell me, if you know so much.
    5 Do you know who determined its dimensions or who stretched the measuring line across it?
    6 On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone,
    7 when the morning stars sang together,
    and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

    Adam is an example, but Adam is not a single entity as the sole human, just like Job was not a single entity as the sole righteous man.

    Verse 7 clearly says when it happened. The angels are stars, day 4. Humanity, the sons of God, day 6. Yes, a little lower, but no, not that huge of an advantage. Angels can only be what God demands. Humanity with a free will figures out humanity's destiny, but with a caveat. Satan would rebel, and in turn fulfill God’s plan that humanity would also fall. But Satan had no say so, just like Job as a righteous man could not answer God’s questions, nor question God’s plan and will.

    To say God planned to create a Satan would be true. God planned it all out. How humans handled life, God did know, but God did not command it to happen that way. Humans were free to create their history one way or the other. Humanity is still free, up until God shows up. Then I think that Calvinism could come into play. There will not be a myriad of free will choices. The world will see God on one side, and Satan will be championing his side. A binary decision. No more theology, no more doctrine. Just like Adam in the Garden. Listen to Satan, or listen to God.

    God does tell Job to stand like a man and face Satan head on. Satan cannot do anything past what God knows humanity can handle. Does Satan's status condemn us? No, a thousand times no. We do not have to listen to nor let Satan control us, no matter the circumstances. Greater is God, whom we are, than Satan and those on his side.
     
    #3 timtofly, Jun 1, 2020
  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:10

    Romans 5:18,19 So, then, as through one offence to all men it is to condemnation, so also through one declaration of 'Righteous' it is to all men to justification of life; for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous

    So, had Adam by his free will chosen obedience, that would have negated, Christ as of a lamb, slain, that is redemption by the blood, before/from the foundation of the world?

    Would Adam's obedience have done just much for man as his disobedience did for man?
     
    #4 percho, Jun 1, 2020
  5. timtofly

    timtofly Well-Known Member

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    The world will never know.

    The question would be if there was a perfect world for 8000 years would that have been equally God’s Will and Plan?

    I would say any of a million different scenarios would have been equally all God’s Plans and Will.
     
    #5 timtofly, Jun 1, 2020
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