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Featured Election,“For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God”

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Alan Gross, Oct 26, 2022.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    from; The Canons of Dort

    Article 7

    Election is the unchangeable purpose of God, whereby,
    before the foundation of the world, He hath out of mere grace,
    according to the sovereign good pleasure of His own will, chosen,
    from the whole human race,
    which had fallen through their own fault
    from their primitive state of rectitude into sin and destruction,
    a certain number of persons to redemption in Christ,

    whom He from eternity appointed the Mediator
    and Head of the elect,
    and the foundation of salvation.


    This elect number, though by nature neither better
    nor more deserving than others,
    but with them involved in one common misery,
    God hath decreed to give to Christ, to be saved by Him,
    and effectually to call and draw them
    to His communion by His Word and Spirit,
    to bestow upon them true Faith, Justification and Sanctification;

    and having powerfully preserved them in the fellowship of His Son,
    finally, to glorify them for the demonstration of His mercy
    and for the praise of His glorious grace, as it is written:

    “According as He hath chosen us in Him
    before the foundation of the world,
    that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
    having predestinated us unto the adoption of children
    by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
    to the praise of the glory of His grace,
    wherein He hath made us accepted in the beloved”

    (Eph. 1:4–6).

    And elsewhere:

    “Whom He did predestinate, them He also called:
    and whom He called, them He also justified:
    and whom He justified them He also glorified”

    (Rom. 8:30).

    Article 8 There are not various decrees of election,
    but one and the same decree respecting all those who shall be saved
    ,
    both under the Old and New Testament;

    since the Scripture declares the good pleasure, purpose
    and counsel of the divine will to be one,
    according to which He hath chosen us from eternity,
    both to grace and glory, to salvation and the way of salvation,
    which He hath ordained that we should walk therein.

    Article 9 This election was not founded upon foreseen faith,
    and the obedience of faith, holiness, or any other good quality
    or disposition in man, as the prerequisite,
    cause or condition on which it depended;

    but men are chosen to faith and to the obedience of faith, holiness, etc.;

    therefore election is the fountain of every saving good,
    from which proceeds Faith, Holiness, and the other gifts of salvation,
    and finally eternal life itself, as its fruits and effects,
    according to that of the apostle:

    “He hath chosen us [not because we were but]
    that we should be holy, and without blame, before Him in love”

    (Eph. 1:4).

    Article 10 The good pleasure of God
    is the sole cause of this gracious election
    ,
    which doth not consist herein, that out of all possible qualities
    and actions of men God has chosen some as a condition of salvation;

    but that He was pleased out of the common mass of sinners
    to adopt some certain persons as a peculiar people to Himself,
    as it is written,

    “For the children being not yet born,
    neither having done any good or evil,”
    etc.,

    it was said (namely to Rebecca):

    “The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written,
    Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated”

    (Rom. 9:11-13).

    “And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed”
    (Acts 13:48).

    Article 11 And as God Himself is most wise, unchangeable,
    omniscient and omnipotent, so the election made by Him
    can neither be interrupted nor changed, recalled or annulled;


    neither can the elect be cast away, nor their number diminished.

    Article 12 The elect in due time, though in various degrees
    and in different measures, attain the assurance
    of this their eternal and unchangeable election
    ,
    not by inquisitively prying into the secret and deep things of God,
    but by observing in themselves, with a spiritual joy and holy pleasure,
    the infallible fruits of election pointed out in the Word of God —
    such as a true faith in Christ, filial fear, a godly sorrow for sin,
    a hungering and thirsting after righteousness, etc.

    Article 13 The sense and certainty of this election
    afford to the children of God additional matter
    for daily humiliation before Him
    ,
    for adoring the depth of His mercies, for cleansing themselves,
    and rendering grateful returns of ardent love to Him,
    who first manifested so great love towards them.

    The consideration of this doctrine of election
    is so far from encouraging remissness
    in the observance of the divine commands
    or from sinking men in carnal security, that these,
    in the just judgment of God,
    are the usual effects of rash presumption or of idle
    and wanton trifling with the grace of election
    in those who refuse to walk in the ways of the elect.

    Article 14 As the doctrine of divine election
    by the most wise counsel of God was declared by the prophets,
    by Christ Himself, and by the apostles,
    and is clearly revealed in the Scriptures,
    both of the Old and New Testament,

    so it is still to be published in due time and place in the Church of God,
    for which it was peculiarly designed, provided it be done with reverence,
    in the spirit of discretion and piety, for the glory of God's most holy Name,
    and for enlivening and comforting His people,
    without vainly attempting to investigate the secret ways of the Most High.

    “For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God”
    (Acts 20:27);

    “O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
    how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!
    For who hath known the mind of the Lord?
    or who hath been His counselor?”

    (Rom. 11:33–34);

    “For I say, through the grace given unto me,
    to every man that is among you,
    not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think;

    but to think soberly,
    according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith”

    (Rom. 12:3);

    “Wherein God, willing more abundantly
    to shew unto the heirs of promise
    the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
    that by two immutable things,
    in which it was impossible for God to lie,
    we might have a strong consolation,
    who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us”

    (Heb. 6:17–18).

    Article 15 What peculiarly tends to illustrate and recommend to us
    the eternal and unmerited grace of election,
    is the express testimony of sacred Scripture
    that not all, but some only are elected,
    while others are passed by in the eternal decree
    ;

    whom God, out of His sovereign, most just, irreprehensible
    and unchangeable good pleasure,
    hath decreed to leave in the common misery
    into which they have wilfully plunged themselves,
    and not to bestow upon them saving faith and the grace of conversion;

    but permitting them in His just judgment to follow their own ways,
    at last for the declaration of His justice, to condemn and perish them forever,
    not only on account of their unbelief but also for all their other sins.

    And this is the decree of reprobation
    which by no means makes God the author of sin
    (the very thought of which is blasphemy),
    but declares Him to be an awful, irreprehensible,
    and righteous Judge and avenger thereof.
     
  2. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Must admit that is a real exercise in double speak. God is responsible for all those saved by His decree but for some reason He is not responsible for all those lost by that same decree. When one has to add a disclaimer to an article then you should doubt the veracity of that article. You as a calvinist may be willing to accept the smearing of the character of God but I am not. From all I have read elsewhere and on BB calvinism generally portrays God at best as being disingenuous or at the worst as being a downright deceiver.

    That may seem harsh but I am tired of seeing Gods' good name drug through the theological mud.
     
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  3. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Article 15 says,
    I'll go with that.
     
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  4. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    God saves believers. Unbelievers are lost and remain lost unless and until they believe, Acts 16:31, John 3:16.
     
  5. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    I did not doubt that you as a calvinist would do that, but it does not change the fact that it is an inconsistent document.

    But as a calvinist you have had to learn to live with the inconsistencies.
     
  6. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    The Acts of the Apostles 16:30-31 is as clear a presentation of how one can be saved as you will find in the bible. "What must I do". A clear question and a clear answer provided, "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ". Now I have had some say well ya but God had to draw them. Who is disputing that? That is why we present the gospel message Romans 1:16 and why the Holy Spirit works among us John 16:8-9.
     
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  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    “For I have not shunned
    to declare unto you
    all the counsel of God”
     
  8. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    Alan no need to use larger text I have good eyesight. The bible is to be the authority we go by not what some man or group of men have written.
     
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  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    You are the one that worships John Calvin as if he wrote The Bible.

    God wrote The Whole Counsel of God in it.
     
  10. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Amen to both those verses, but they have to be harmonized with other verses such as Acts of the Apostles 13:48 and John 6:44.
     
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  11. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    The Scripture cannot be broken.

    John 3:16 is enough to be saved on.
     
  12. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    How you get that from what I write about calvinism is beyond me. You hold to that calvinist philosophy and then try to deny tat you do is that what you are saying now. Come on Alan pick a lane. You hold to Dort which is calvinism.

    How do you respond to Acts of the Apostles 16:30-31
    "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
    "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."
    Did the Holy Spirit get it wrong? Should Paul have told the man, you can do nothing because if God did not pick you before time began well your toast, sorry about that but you just did not make the cut. But thanks for asking.

    But Acts 16:30-31 goes right along with Hear the gospel Believe the gospel and be saved Ephesians 1:13 You know that same gospel that is the power of God unto salvation Romans 1:16. And this salvation is available to all Jews and Gentiles. That is way we are told God desires all to be saved not just the calvinist "elect". Are all saved NO and why not well that bible tells us, you have to believe in the Son. Romans 10:9-10
     
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  13. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    They can be harmonized when you look at the context
    Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you {Jews} first; but since you {Jews} reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.
    Act 13:47 For so the Lord has commanded us: 'I HAVE SET YOU AS A LIGHT TO THE GENTILES, THAT YOU SHOULD BE FOR SALVATION TO THE ENDS OF THE EARTH.' "
    Act 13:48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

    Here we see that the gentiles believed the message that the Jews rejected. Because of the context I see this as a logical paraphrase of vs 48 "As many as had been prepared by the message and the spirit, at the message just delivered by Paul, of their own volition, accord, or choice believed."

    I do not think anyone on BB would question that God draws people to Himself John 12:32 is clear about that and that would also seem to be the intent of the gospel message would you not agree Romans 1:16 and we see this carried through in Ephesians 1:13.

    God has provided a number of ways for man to be drawn to Him whether by creation Romans 1:20 or by the conviction of the Holy Spirit John 16:8-10 or the preaching of the gospel message Matthew 24:14. Why does God reach out to a sinful people, because He loves us Romans 5:6-10



     
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  14. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. To WORSHIP GOD and His REVEALED WORD.
     
  15. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Why can't you Worship God?
     
  16. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    You must feel really threatened by what I post on here as you just are so over the top with your silly comments. Are you so foolish that you think one has to be a calvinist before they can worship God? Have you not figured it out yet that I do not dislike calvinists but I do dislike what the calvinist philosophy does to the character of God. As I said before " I am tired of seeing Gods' good name drug through the theological mud."

    Now I am sure my comment will upset a number of people on BB but I really have not seen anything regarding calvinism that would cause me to change my view of that theology.
     
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  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Here we agree.

    But here you are just altering the plain meaning of the text to suit your theology.. The Bible says, 'As many as were appointed to eternal life beieved.' Why can you not simply believe what it says? There is nothing in the context that contradicts it in any way.
    What you forget is Revelation 3:7. 'These things says He who is holy, He who is true, He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens.' If God draws someone, he is drawn, irresistibly.
    But not, according to you apparently, enough to save us.



    [/QUOTE]
     
  18. MrW

    MrW Well-Known Member

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    “Ye do always resist the Holy Ghost”.
    Acts 7:51.

    All are called, drawn by the Gospel and God’s Spirit and most resistibly resist the call. Why?

    Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself told us why people resist, reject, deny, and some even purely hate God, and He told us the reason in that great 3rd chapter of John’s Gospel, precisely in verse 19.

    I recommend reading the verses around John 3:19, also.
     
  19. Silverhair

    Silverhair Well-Known Member

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    [/QUOTE]

    Actually Martin the context does help you understand vs 48 in fact we have to use the context if we want to come to understand that verse.
    The Greek word for “appointed” or “ordained tassō G5021used in this verse could either be in the middle or passive voice, as both are spelled the same way in Greek. So the only way to understand this verse is by looking at the context [vs 46-48] which as you know contrasts the rejection of the message by the Jews and the acceptance of it by the Gentiles.
    They believed," trusted, or were saved, when they believed, after the word was preached, Mark 1:15; Acts of the Apostles 16:31; Romans 1:15-16
    It affirms that only those that were convicted by the Holy Spirit that accompanied the apostles' preaching were convicted and believed unto eternal life, 1 John 5:13.

    Revelation 3:7 is clear that no one can force their way in to heaven but that is not what Acts 13:46-48 is showing us is it. Those of the gentiles that believed were saved by grace because of their faith. Why do you deny what the context clearly shows us.
     
  20. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Interpretion.
     
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