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Faith is the result of Election !
- Thread starter Brightfame52
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Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You have it backwards
You are making claims, without a basis in reality.
Ephesians 1:4 says, the "us" (saints then living in the city) were chosen in Him. This means when He was chosen as redeemer, all those He would redeem were chosen corporately, the target group of God's redemption plan.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Van you post the exact opposite of what I say in response to your non biblical claim that God accounts a man as righteous because of righteous faith. Faith is a concept/idea Van even when you post in bold and a larger font.
We have no righteousness of our own. God credits/accounts us as righteous only because we are in Christ
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.
Rom 4:9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS."
What are you missing in these verses Van?
Yes I know that God alone credits the person as righteous because of their faith. No faith no righteousness.
Lets just stop right there!!! Did I say that? Nope. What did I say?
God does not "account" (or declare or credit) a person as righteous, He makes them righteous by the washing of regeneration once transferred spiritually into Christ.
So the poster posts the exact opposite of what I said. What a waste!!
I say God does not account, declare or credit a person as righteous.
I say God makes people righteous by the washing of regeneration.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
BF do you believe God is sovereign or not? That is not a hard question but you sure have a hard time answering it. You have danced around this question several times now. Why is that?
All it takes is a
YES. God is sovereign
or
NO. God is not sovereign
If you can not answer with a YES then I will have to conclude that you do not believe that He is sovereign else you would have no problem answering in the positive.
I can say without a doubt that God is sovereign. Can you?
If you can not or actually will not answer the question here why would anyone think you would answer it then?
You have shown that you must not think God is sovereign as you refuse to say that He is. @Brightfame52 I have to ask what else about biblical Christianity are you willing to compromise? What other biblical truths are you willing to throw under the bus of your personal theological view?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
@Van your letting your temper show, that is bad form.
Of course you did not say "Yes I know that God alone credits the person as righteous because of their faith. No faith no righteousness." I did, so why are you so upset? Did you think I was going to agree with you?
The bible says the exact opposite of what you said.
In Genesis 15:6, it was said about Abraham that “he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.” That text is quoted or alluded to four times in the New Testament as an illustration of how we may be righteous today through the gospel of Christ (Romans 4:3-5, Romans 4:20-22; Galatians 3:6-9; James 2:23).
It was an unconditional promise of grace, to be received by faith—the same kind of faith by which we obtain God's righteousness today.
Van one is only transferred into Christ when they believe/have faith. They are accounted as / credited with the righteousness of Christ.
Note this poster addresses me, and not the topic.
At least in post 107 he admits a mis-characterization of my view was attributed to me.
The Bible says exactly what I said.
God does not "account" (or declare or credit) a person as righteous, He makes them righteous by the washing of regeneration once transferred spiritually into Christ.
Once again (referring to Genesis 15:6) he seems not to know the verse says "it" (Abraham's faith) was counted to him as righteousness.
We agree only those whose faith is credited as righteousness are transferred into Christ.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Van you really need to learn how to read.
In Genesis 15:6, it was said about Abraham that “he believed the Lord, and he counted it to him as righteousness.” That text is quoted or alluded to four times in the New Testament as an illustration of how we may be righteous today through the gospel of Christ (Romans 4:3-5, Romans 4:20-22; Galatians 3:6-9; James 2:23).
Because Abraham believed God accounted Abraham as righteous. You are wearing blinders Van.
Not everything someone writes is
1} taking your word out on context or changing your words. If there not in "" then it is that persons opinion
2} when some disagrees with what you said it is not an attack on you but your comment
You do seem to have a persecution complex. That is not an attack just an observation.
The more you post the more sure I am that you are becoming a calvinist even if you do not know it. Again not an attack just an observation.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
@Brightfame52
Are you afraid to answer this question?
You have put yourself out there as the authority on the atonement by your 10 or so threads on it so surely you can answer whether God is sovereign or not?
Is God sovereign?
That's an easy question. It only needs a YES or NO answer.
If you agree that God is sovereign, as I am sure you must, then you have to agree that Can God create a world where humans sometimes experience LFW and yet God foreknows every future event that will occur?
Or perhaps it is just the logical result of a YES answer that scares you. God actually being sovereign just does not fit into your theological frame work.
So it seems the only thing you can do that lets you hold onto your theology is to say NO, God is not sovereign.
Now you can always correct my conclusion by saying that God is sovereign.
Are you afraid to answer this question?
You have put yourself out there as the authority on the atonement by your 10 or so threads on it so surely you can answer whether God is sovereign or not?
Is God sovereign?
That's an easy question. It only needs a YES or NO answer.
If you agree that God is sovereign, as I am sure you must, then you have to agree that Can God create a world where humans sometimes experience LFW and yet God foreknows every future event that will occur?
Or perhaps it is just the logical result of a YES answer that scares you. God actually being sovereign just does not fit into your theological frame work.
So it seems the only thing you can do that lets you hold onto your theology is to say NO, God is not sovereign.
Now you can always correct my conclusion by saying that God is sovereign.
It is a biblical viewpoint consistent with all scripture. And the view that a corporate election is simply a group of individuals has no basis, as individual election through faith could not occur before our lifetime, including living without mercy before we obtained mercy. Once we were not a people (chosen for God's purpose) but once elected we became a chosen "people of God." 1 Peter 2:10
Does the text say, and I am quoting scripture because you seem unable to read, "his faith is counted as righteousness." (KJV) "his faith is credited as righteous." (NASB) "his faith is reckoned as righteousness. (ASV) "his faith is accounted for righteousness.(NKJV)
You seem to like to insult others, i.e. you need to learn to read, or you are becoming a Calvinist. This reveals your heart.
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Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Van when you refuse to read what the text says then that is a valid comment. As to you becoming like a calvinist. How many times have you seen calvinists latch onto a verse they think supports their view and ignore clear text that disproves their view. Look at your own comments Van, you have been doing the same thing.
Now I am sure you will disagree and that is your right just as it is mine to make the comments I have.
Van faith is a concept an idea it can not be righteous only a person can be righteous, you can fight the truth all you want but it will not change the truth.
Only God is righteous and He grants His righteousness to us through faith in His risen Son, Christ Jesus.
Rom_1:17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe;
Rom_3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
Rom_3:26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Rom_10:6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows:
Php 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
See you finally got it Van "his faith is accounted for righteousness.(NKJV) Notice he got the righteousness of God because of his faith. The person is accounted as righteous.
God is righteous, we are not {Rom 3:10} therefore our faith can not be righteous. We obtain His righteousness through faith.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
The elect were chosen in Christ before the foundation, before they had any being. And when they have being, they are born dead to God, totally depraved under sin Rom 3:9-19
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
@Brightfame52
Are you afraid to answer this question?
You have put yourself out there as the authority on the atonement by your 10 or so threads on it so surely you can answer whether God is sovereign or not?
Is God sovereign?
That's an easy question. It only needs a YES or NO answer.
You refuse to answer this question because it shows up the error of your theology.
But by not answering you actually prove the error of your theology.
Righteousness is imputed, not imparted.
MMRRPP ! WRONG ! YOU do ! You simply ignored all the "whoever"s I posted from Scripture. You can't show us one "whoever if elect".
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
You still have it backwards.
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