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Brave Men...

Discussion in '2007 Archive' started by pinoybaptist, Aug 22, 2007.

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  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    one minute with one of them is all I need.

    L I N K

    Boy, 5, doused in gas, set on fire by masked men

     
    #1 pinoybaptist, Aug 22, 2007
  2. ByGracethroughFaith

    ByGracethroughFaith New Member

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    Just curious, what would you do?

    BGTF
     
    #2 ByGracethroughFaith, Aug 22, 2007
  3. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member
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    This from a society that hates Jesus Christ. Religious corruption, that grasps a nation, a region, with goals of world domination, seems to produce these monsters.
     
    #3 hillclimber1, Aug 22, 2007
  4. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    find out just what they're made of when the fight is fair and they have someone their size in front of them.
     
    #4 pinoybaptist, Aug 22, 2007
  5. ByGracethroughFaith

    ByGracethroughFaith New Member

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    Do you think they would have ever heard the gospel?

    I read that 4 out 12 on trial at Nuremberg turned to Christ, which is a very high percentage compared to the general population. The largest contributing factor was that they actually saw what was in themselves.

    Here is the book
    http://www.challies.com/archives/book-reviews/book-review-war.php

    If the odds were the same maybe 2 out of 5 of these guys would be saved.


    BGTF
     
    #5 ByGracethroughFaith, Aug 22, 2007
  6. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    Someone once said "War is hell" and he was right but our politicians fired him. Not for what he said but because he got the job done in a manner most effective.

    Too sad for this kid. There are perhaps hundreds other kids like him who have suffered from the war. When wll it stop? When our politicians let our generals do their job without interference.

    Fat chance of that happening.
     
    #6 av1611jim, Aug 23, 2007
  7. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member
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    Wow, I'd never heard that before.
     
    #7 hillclimber1, Aug 23, 2007
  8. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    I'm sorry, BGTF, but I'm not a big fan of criminals about to be put to death, such as Nazi war criminals, or in prison, suddenly "turning to Christ" and being sorry for their sins.
    Not that there haven't been true repentance for some, but most are really sorry they were caught, or using Christ for their own selfish ends.
    A lot do that in prison, even here in the United States.
    So I would rather leave the convicting and the converting to the Holy Spirit.
    His work is more reliable and eternal.

    On the other hand, here is a child whose face has been forever disfigured, whose heart and soul has been totally scarred and desecrated, and what about him, BGTF ? Do you think all the gospeling anyone can do, all the referencing to God, is going to help him at this point in his life ?

    You're more concerned about my statement regarding grown up bullies and what I would like to see them do when faced with somebody their own size, and never mind the victim ?

    What about this child ?

    He was simply minding his own business, absolutely no threat to anyone, Muslim, Christian, Shiite or whatever, and somebody picks him up and douses him with gasoline and lights him up, and "oh, pity the perpetrator" ?
     
    #8 pinoybaptist, Aug 23, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2007
  9. hillclimber1

    hillclimber1 Active Member
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    That seems a perfectly natural point in a sinners life to heed Christ's call.

    I would hate to make that assumption. A NON-repentant heart would not turn to Christ.

    Again, many if not most sinners come to Christ when at the end of themselves.

    For him Christ would be sufficient, and a wonderful peace for his hopefully long walk ahead.


    NO ONE is left without hope. Christ came that all who receive Him would have life.
     
    #9 hillclimber1, Aug 23, 2007
  10. ByGracethroughFaith

    ByGracethroughFaith New Member

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    You are assuming innocence on the part of the child. If so, why didn't God protect him? Perhaps it was because He never heard you pray for that child, and yet here you are calling for judgment without mercy on men who may never have had any gospel light.

    The death penalty is often times one of the greatest blessings in the convicted man's life. He knows he is guilty, and he knows he will soon enter eternity, at that point he is obligated to face it. Many more turn truly to Christ on death row than ever do in the lap of luxury.

    Don't ever forget that the same things that exist in the hearts of these men that caused them to do this, exist in your heart and mine. If it was not for the grace of God we could very well be them.

    You should read Nate Saint's story with the Auca's. The same native who stuck the spear into Nate Saint to kill him later baptized his child.


    BGTF
     
    #10 ByGracethroughFaith, Aug 23, 2007
  11. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    BGTF:

    There is nothing in the Bible that prevents me from expressing anger at injustice and cruelty. I have done so.

    As far as getting these people "saved", I am sorry, but I do not share your theology.

    When it comes to human beings behind bars, I prefer to take their "repentance" and "sorrow" and "turning" to Christ with a big spoonful of salt.

    I will not laugh at them, but I will not also be taken by them, and I am not saying either that all of them are false professions of faith and repentance.

    I have a special animosity for people who hurt children and the aged.

    As a thirteen year old on the way to a dance, I was ganged up on and beat up by five grown men who were drunk, and have a rounded scar below my right eye near the bridge of my nose where one of them stabbed me with a pencil.

    My father and elder brother located each one of these "men", and they wet their pants. I was there.

    My paternal grandfather, at age 76, was ganged up on and robbed by a couple of "toughies" in the neighborhood. My cousin and I located them, and once more, they soiled their pants.


    More often than not, those who hurt children and the aged are bullies who tuck their tails in and cower in fear when dealing with somebody their size, that is the point of what I said, "give me a minute with them".

    I am glad I provided you and others here somebody you can beat down and point fingers to as being "unchristian" in so many words.
     
    #11 pinoybaptist, Aug 24, 2007
  12. faithgirl46

    faithgirl46 Active Member
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    thy would be better off with millstone around their necks. God bless this dear child. Jesus, please be with and bless the young boy who was abused doused and set on fire by masked men.:tear: :tear: :BangHead: :praying:
     
    #12 faithgirl46, Aug 24, 2007
  13. ByGracethroughFaith

    ByGracethroughFaith New Member

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    But if you refuse to believe these people's testimony that they are saved, why would you expect others to believe you when you say you are saved?

    Instead of harboring anger, why not turn that animosity into courage with the gospel. The boy is on his way to the States which will make it much easier for you to bring the gospel to him and his family.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/08/23/iraq.boyfolo/index.html

    Keep us updated as to how it went.


    BGTF
     
    #13 ByGracethroughFaith, Aug 24, 2007
  14. av1611jim

    av1611jim New Member

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    So what would you say about a 'gang of thugs" taking an aged old man out behind some lonely darkened street and beating him nearly to death with rocks then leaving him battered and bleading to die?

    Or perhaps this same group of "thugs" taken the SAME man out to a post, tying him to it and whipping him to within an inch of his life?

    Seems to me this is the SAME kind of evil you are speaking of when these men beat you or your grandfather. Yet PAUL never advocated revenge. He trusted in God.

    Vengance is mine saith the Lord.

    While I think we OUGHT to let our Armed forces do their job oversees, I DO NOT think it is the individual Christian's place to advocate singular REVENGE on acts such as happened to this poor boy. This is what I see you doing. It is the VIGILANTE'S mentality and is just as evil as that group of cowards who doused him in gasoline in the first place. I don't see in your comments anything close to faith in God to work all things out for His glory.
     
    #14 av1611jim, Aug 24, 2007
  15. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    My sympathies lie with Youssiff, sir, not with the "brave and mighty" men you side with who bite off frogs' heads to show off their manhood, or burn small, helpless kids who just happened to be playing oblivious to the carnage happening around them.

    My faith in God is intact, and so is my ability to share it with others.

    When I was converted, I never read in my Bible that part of being a Christian is to forget about standing for and in behalf of those who are being untreated fairly.

    My statement stands: one minute with these kinds of "men" is all I need for them to realize they're mice, not men.

    If you don't like it, and it offends your sense of holiness, fine with me, and I will offer no apologies.

    In the meantime, there is a link where you can put your Christian money where your mouth is to help Youssiff, the little kid, and maybe help him realize that there is a God out there much more worthy of worship than the Allah he, his family (presumably), and the men who burned him, worship.

    Or is the little boy not worthy of the sympathies you have for those who burned him ?
     
    #15 pinoybaptist, Aug 25, 2007
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  16. ByGracethroughFaith

    ByGracethroughFaith New Member

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    PB-
    To biblically stand in the boy's behalf you would need to be burned in his place. You are not suggesting to stand in the behalf of the boy, you are requesting personal vengeance on the crime to satisfy your anger brought on by personal memories. Desire for personal vengeance is grievous sin.


    Matt 5:44-48
    44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    Rom 12:19-21
    19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.


    BGTF
     
    #16 ByGracethroughFaith, Aug 25, 2007
  17. faithgirl46

    faithgirl46 Active Member
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    PB not only do we need to pray for this boy, but we need to pray for his attackers The Bibe encourages us, instructs us to pray for our enemies.
    Faithgirl
     
    #17 faithgirl46, Aug 26, 2007
  18. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Amen... I wonder who Jesus expected to tie the millstone around the perpetrator's neck....

    God does not condone vengence, but he does condone Justice...
    Hence the death penalty.

    And the Just thing to do would be to do to them what they did to the child.

    Grace, Mercy, yeah, they have a place...
    But so does Justice!

    God is a God of wrath, not just not a weak kneeed, pantywaist, extending a mushy type of love.

    We had better remember this...
    God means business.

    Or have you all forgotten God said, there is a time for war?
     
    #18 tinytim, Aug 26, 2007
  19. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    I hear you, faithgirl.

    And what I said wasn't meant to be taken as if I were advocating cutting off the heads of these perpetrators
    .
    What I said was a statement of fact: give anybody (not just me) their size, or more than they can handle, a minute alone with bullies, and you sometimes do not need to do anything more. They'll mostly fold up and beg you not to hurt them. I lost whatever ounce of respect and fear I had for them, to this day.

    The bullies who ganged up on me wet their pants as soon as they saw my dad and brother, bigger than they were, and they recognized my father as a police detective. There was no need to beat them up. They literally got down on their knees and begged for mercy.

    You told me in a more sisterly way what others were trying to say, and I appreciate that, without making me feel like I was an unbeliever who strayed where I shouldn't have gone - to heaven where only the holy reside - and got a good kick in the behind.

    Rebukes are good, but there is a way of rebuking, and there is a way of rebuking.

    While the attackers are worth praying for, the little boy is worth assisting more than they, and at the moment more deserving of compassion - for the simple reason that these bullies have gone and faded away, and have left their victim to lick his wounds, and the little boy is accessible to us, and help from us. Just a click of a keyboard key away.

    Ciao.
     
    #19 pinoybaptist, Aug 26, 2007
  20. ByGracethroughFaith

    ByGracethroughFaith New Member

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    Truth be known, I was trying to make you feel like a BELIEVER who strayed where you shouldn't have gone, my apologies if I came across differently. In the end I think it turned out well, especially since I was saved from offering to take the beating in their place :D

    Before I was saved I had quite a number of 'incidents', and don't remember winning any of them. Sometimes it was my face that hurt, and other times it was only my hand that hurt, but either way I seemed to leave with pain somewhere ;)


    BGTF
     
    #20 ByGracethroughFaith, Aug 26, 2007
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