Open Or Closed Communion

I find it hard as well to think of a fellowship who has the boldness to put someone out of the Church.

When it does happen I think they do it arrogance. Unless the sin is so blatant as to call police etc.

I personally think that any fellowship that the Lord is working through, that the Lord will do it Himself. Only with true believers though.

As to closed churches causing division etc, that seems obvious to me.

 

That is a good point that I think has been missed here. The local church is the one who sets the policy of open communion or closed communion. If the local church votes either way, and one cannot live with the policy, then that person needs to seek out a church that has the policy he agrees with. There are plenty of Baptist churches in both camps.

 

Sadly, that is how most people pick a church. The one that agrees with me must be right! How sad is that?

A church who would deny communion to a believer who belongs to the body of Christ's church cannot possibly be doing right, in my view. There is no Biblical example of it, nor any instruction to do so. Jesus taught us what communion is. He taught it at the time when He and His disciples were observing the previous rememberance, that of the Passover. That night Jesus taught them a new thing. Just as the Israelites were told to teach the lesson of God's deliverance each year to their children, telling the story and having the Passover supper, so Jesus told His disciples to "do this in rememberance of me" because He was the replacement Lamb, slain for the deliverance of the world. It is a rememberance of the Lamb of God. It is not a closed dinner party only for invited guests. I believe it should be available to the stranger within our gates if they are fellow believers, and it is not for me to judge the heart of any professing believer. That is God's work.

 

That is a good post. I will leave the closed communion to the Catholics and the Church of Christ. No doubt there are others.

 

How do you know he is a believer, you may be communioning with the devil himself. You can add many associations of Old Baptists who have closed communion and we have 7 Associations from Michigan to Fla. who have closed communions and they are all Baptists. I can't answer for Primitive and United, but I believe most of them are closed communion along with Old Regular Baptist.

Your judgement against our churches is more wrong than us having closed Communion.
When Jesus had communion, even the "good man" of the house was not included.

It is like the man trying to buy the Holy Ghost. The communion is not for just anyone. Its for God's people and all believers should have a church they go to that know them. Anyone can say he is a "believer", don't make it so.

If the division separates us from the world, then so be it.

BBob,

 

Let me ask you, Brother Bob, how do you know that all of the elders in your own church are believers? Many people play-act as Christians for much of their lives without ever truly believing, and I don't buy the "fruit" argument because they are quite often deceivers of themselves as much as anyone else. No where in scripture am I told to judge a person as a believer or unbeliever. And by the way, I have not judged your church or any other church so please don't play that card either. I'm well aware of the Old Regular Baptist practices, having grown up partly in that church. I pronounced no judgement on your church, but said a certain practice in any church is wrong. Do you not see the difference? However, even if I did judge a church, there is nothing in scripture that forbids me from judging the practices of a church whereas there is certainly scripture against judging the heart of a man. That is also something a great many churches like to practice, which is also wrong.

I believe your reasoning is flawed with regard to Jesus limiting communion to just the 12 as well. The 12 did not constitute a church. They were the apostles who were to be sent out to teach the church once the Holy Spirit came and the church began. So you can't compare what was done before there was a church to what the church should do. It is not a valid comparison.

First, I never said that communion is for just anyone so you are arguing against something I never advocated. But as for what believers should do, where is that in scripture. There is plenty of scripture for how we are to treat the stranger within our gate. For one part of the body to tell the other part of the body "you should go find your own" makes no sense to me. We are all a part of one body.

Including the former moderator of Little Ida, whose story you know well. Do you really believe that by taking communion only with members of your church that you won't be taking communion with an unbeliever? Jesus gave communion to an unbeliever. Did he not give Judas of the bread and cup? If Jesus gave it to Judas, who are we to judge someone unworthy? I'd love an answer to that question.

 

Yep. I agree

 

Thank you,

By having a closed communion, I can be much more surer than you or anyone who has open communion that I am participating with believers. Of cours we get fooled and I already stated that, but over all it is much more surer than open the doors.

This is 1893 Article of Faith of Old Regular which I am sure is same as much farther back. I will stay with it.
9th: We believe in the Communion of the Lord's Supper, that is, taking of the bread and wine, by the Church of Jesus Christ in commemoration of the death and suffering of the Son of God until His Second Coming.

10th: We believe that feet washing is an ordinance of Jesus Christ and ought to be observed and kept up by His Church until His Second Coming.

If you at one time belonged to Old Regular and left, then I can understand you taking a stand against them. I been with them for 35 years and intend to stay all the way to the end and I love their ways and practices and especially their doctrine, for I believe it to be the "true" doctrine. If I did not, then I would move on.

There were a couple or more moderators of Little Ida that left under unchristian ways. I do not know which one you refer to unless his initials were L. Smith and it so, I never had no confidence in him from day one for I knew him personally before he came in church and after. As a matter of fact, I preached his ex-wife's funeral.

There is going to be a communion that many will say they are believers and be cast out.

Mat 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


Mat 7:23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Being that you do know Old Regular Baptists, then you should know already how strong we stand on the matter.

God Bless,

I am certainly glad its your veiw and IMO, not the Lord's

Can anyone give an example where there was a "open" communion by scripture??????

 

Bob, I attended the Old Regular Baptist church as a little boy with my grandmother. That's what I meant by being raised partly in that church. That is not at all like what you are attributing to me. And lest you misunderstand, I have taken no stand against the Old Regular Baptist church. I do not understand why you are twisting my beliefs about open/closed communion into some sort of attack on the Old Regulars. I've never even brought them up. But am I to fear that if I advocate any teaching that differs from the Old Regulars, I'm some how taking a stand against your church? I don't know how to have good decent discussions with others if that is how the conversation has to go.

Yes I do. But I didn't bring up the Old Regulars. I just shared my thoughts on one issue, open/closed communion. There are many churches that practice each of these. You are the one who has accused me of taking a stand against your church, and I still don't understand why you have done that. If my understanding of scripture on other matters differes from the ORB church does that also mean I'm taking a stand against your church?

I am still curious as to why you think Jesus gave the bread and cup to Judas, and yet you believe it is right to deny it to fellow believers. After all, Jesus had absolute knowledge of what Judas was. Do we follow His example, or create our own righteousness? And I've already pointed out the scriptural teaching that there is but one body.

 

1 Cor. 11:27-30 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. BUT LET A MAN EXAMINE HIMSELF, AND SO LET HIM EAT AND DRINK of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

These are great posts.

We don't posess the ability to effectively determine who is worthy to partake of the blood and body of our Lord Jesus Christ as Jesus did. Not to mention our spiritual measuring stick would be off even if we did. Jesus called David a man after his own heart. In these times, David may still be ex-communicated by his church though he had repented.

Exactly.

I would be more fearful of the biblical consequences of denying a believer communion.

Not to mention, self appointing men to determine who is worthy can cause self-righteousness. Puffed up comes to mind.

 

Thank you,

It was this statement that I took offense at. You are saying that we cannot be doing right. That is a big statement.
I don't mean to sound like I am attacking you personally, I am just defending the Old Regulars who do practice closed communions.

As far as Judas, I believe the Lord did it for a purpose, but for us to open our doors to communion, we may be encouraging some to eat and drink damnation to themselves. We may even encourgage them to receive death.

You don't want to follow His example of washing feet do you?

I was wondering if you ever visit our churches down there. We have one right in Melbourne somewhere, not sure where.

Do you know any of our brethren, Brother Billy Adair, Chris Watts, Charles Jarrell and others. Have you ever been to Southern Home in Ocala????

Don't take me too hard. I love the Old Regulars and defend them. I been preaching for 35 years. I am going on 69 years old. I lived in Michigan for years and was there when Little Ida was established.

BBob,

 

Do you Pastor a church or Moderate one that has in its constitution to practice "closed" communion only???

Do you believe in following the rules of your church???

BBob

 

No. But if the church voted to have closed communion, I would accept it. And notice in my wording it says CAN cause self-righteousness, not will cause it.

Where did this come from?

I am curious if there are specific bible verses which state this with regard to communion but I do understand. Since God judges your heart, and your church members, imho, it sounds like your heart is right with God. It's nice to know you care so deeply for both your believers and non-believers to take this stand.

 

Forgive me Joe. I really wasn't throwing it at you, but after reading it again, it sounds that way.

I don't know when closed communions started in Old Regulars, but had to be many years ago. I have records back to 1893 and don't think they just made it up then. I have done much research on closed communions but I may google to see how many of the church fathers practiced it.

I guess why we feel this way is that the communion is so sacred, that we do not want to be taking it with the world. We know our members and even though there may be someone among us who is not saved, for the most part they are. We also wash feet, and Jesus gave us that example.
I am not condemning others on their practice, I am just defending ours.

Peace,

BBob,

 

I understand, there's nothing to forgive. It's great to hear your church practices footwashing, I am unsure why most churches do not. Oh well.

Hope you're having a great weekend,

Joe

 

I'm with David Lamb, can we first agree what the terms mean?

What is open?
What is closed?

 

Open, Closed, Close

Does someone want to introduce universal church at this junction? If one is RC--universal, visible, anyone could walk up and participate. However, a Catholic would never take communion with a non-Catholic. Why?
Mainstream Protestants would be universal and invisible; so that would certainly be an open communion--to be consistent.
Those who practice closed communion are usually not RC nor protestant--true Baptists are not protestant. Their faith and practice does not pass through Rome nor Wittenburg. Interesting.
Someone is confused.

God is not the author of confusion.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

Hi BBob,

Good to have you back.

1. Every local church is going to have its distinctives as they understand them from Scripture, so we must be patient with each other.

2. I believe if we look into archives of church history, we'll find this as a constant--we are never going to be alike in everything we doing.

 

Thank you for the welcome back. I just felt I needed to take a few days.

 

I believe in following church rules...until they go against what I interpret Scripture to say.

I believe Scripture to advocate open communion....thus I will practice such in my churches.

Having said that....I do want to point out: every time we have the Lord's Supper, we talk about being a worthy participant, and how it is for believers only.